Any 1911 fans on the board?

[ssgharkness020147]

Well I rolled over the magic 21 a few months back, and the time is fast approaching to pick up a handgun. I have already settled on a 1911 chambered in 45 like they should be. But, I'm pretty torn on brands, I have looked at the Springfields, they make some nice looking guns, but I keep hearing love hate stories about them. I've glanced at the STI's, but have not found that much info on them. I'm not the biggest Kimber fan, they make some nice guns, but I'm going to pass on Kimber this go around. And finally there is the Wilson Combat. That's what I'm leaning twoards, does anyone on the board have a Wilson, or experience with them? I'm almost positive that the Wilson will prevail, but I'm open to other suggestions. Off the bat I'll be taking the gun down to the range alot, I'm thinking about getting into IPSC. I would not mind having something I could have in the truck sometimes as well, but not a specific defense gun. Are there any good 1911 boards out there? Any guidence would be appreciated.

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
I didn't "knock" the 1911 per se. It's just not a good carry weapon for most applications. It is indeed heavy, is not very concealable, is more cumbersome on the draw, etc. It is about the application.

Advice is being discussed here and one has to take into account that you are talking an averaging of individuals and situations and what would fit most. A 1911 style just simply is not a friendly platform for a carry. I have an original Colt from WWII with the heavy, slopply trigger. But, I personally do not think the platform is the right one for the average person on a PD level.

Bondage, before you try to mouth off in any way, I would suggest you get your ducks in a row. Toadies made some comment about most engagements being made within 21 feet, hence my reference to feet. A handgun is for personal defense, period. You can't go around with an AR15 and a shotgun slung on your shoulders for personal protection. Optimum personal protection is to keep the target as far away as you are accurate and effective with your weapon. Since you can keep a target at much distance with a rifle it is the first choice of arms, second would be the shotgun, then the handgun, knife and lastly hand-to-hand. Since the first option most can have available to them at all times is the handgun, it is best to choose the one handgun that is the most applicable to the most possible situations. The fact that one can accurately engage a target further away and with more ammunition available without reload puts them at an advantage over the target in most situations.

At 5-10 feet the energy of the rounds of most large caliber handguns are sufficient to stop the target, so that is really a moot point as long as you have a handgun that is easily controlled in such an tense situation. You are no longer shooting at a paper target and taking out as many variables that would result in a miss or failed engagement has to be employed. This is why the Glock was developed. It is the easiest pistol to use and has a smooth profile. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I'd pretty much agree. But I wasn't "trying to mouth off"...I WAS mouthing off. My ducks WERE in a row, but I popped 'em all.

It is a fact that in the VAST majority of "personal defense" situations, you have no choice on distance - it is almost exclusively "up close and personal." If I wanted to reach out and touch someone, I'd opt for an M14 or Rem 700BDL over the Mattel toy anyway. (See...I know how to piss off a Jarhead) I was just trying to point out that your experience (and mine) is combat oriented and not really applicable to civilian self-defense - precisely because we cannot go properly armed with a rifle or shotgun! You are most likely quite efficient with your Glock. But, even with these older eyes, you'd be happy for me to have your back in any realistic self-defense scenario with my 1911. Hell, together, we'd probably even hit something. As for capacity, there is no denying a statitical edge in sheer numbers. HOWEVER...for fun sometime, compare rounds expended to casualties in WWII vs. Vietnam. It is astounding. Hundreds to one vs. MILLIONS to one! No kidding! BTW - we won the former and lost the latter..... I would go so far as to say that choice of weapon is the LEAST important factor in effective self-defense. Attitude, experience, and training make the real difference, huh?

Oh, and BTW, Toadies is a buffoon. You are right about giving advice in a forum that includes the likes of him. You and I sitting down together would probably agree far more than not.

BTW, I like the Glock. Well, I respect it. It just doesn't fit me well and the balance is odd to me - but then the 1911 is such an extension of my hand and arm that ANYTHING else feels odd. Yeah, I've shot it that much.

Welcome back, Paragon.


Sean

[PARAGON]

A tactical engagement doesn't follow any rules written by a damn magazine or a book. The ridiculous back and forth about calibers and the DA and polymer handguns is doling out the ignorance and nothing else.

A 1911 .45 is fine as a backup weapon to tactical officer who is carrying an entry weapon but as an everyday personal protection choice.... it's just a bad choice. 25 feet is easy to encounter for the civilian in any situation. You can't tell the person shooting at you to stop and wait until he is only 25 feet away. You corner someone in your home and they are threatening and it is easy to be 30 feet or more down a hall. To pigeon hole things will get you killed. And yes, having as many rounds available is a plus, because you never know what situation will arise.

If you want to be stupid with your own life, fine. Otherwise, move on and quit giving advice here on crap you know nothing about on something as important as this.

[Toadies]

Glock is a goddamn turd gun..****in tuperware...I would never own a Glock

Sig > *

[Petey]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Beastmaster:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Andy C H2 hasbeen:
Interesting thread - all I want to know is this - all you guys spouting off about distances and trajectorys and dependability and ease of use and guns blowing up in your hands when they are needed most - have any of you actually ever been involved in a CIVILLIAN situation where you actually needed to pull and fire a weapon.

Just out of interest.

I have fired hundreds of rounds through my Ruger P90 and it never blew up on me - what are the chances of this happening on the one occassion that I might possibly need to use it in anger - pretty slim I would imagine.

Any gun is only as effective as the person behind it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that's my argument. A brand name pistol (Ruger, Glock, S&W, Colt, Kimber, H&K, Sig, Kahr, Walther, Wilson, etc.) will be one of those that you can trust your life on. I want to know that the pistol (when kept in even somewhat deplorable conditions) will fire a round when I pull the trigger.

As for being in a Civilian situation in which I needed to unholster my sidearm - no. In a past professional situation, yes, I have had to unholster my sidearm or utilize and present a long gun.

I can definitely say (with some level of pride, I might add) that I have NEVER had to fire my sidearm (or any long gun for that matter) in self defense or in the defense of a third party. I sincerely hope I never have to, or be placed into a situation in which I do have to defend myself or defend a third party.

And you bring up a good point - if the person behind the pistol is effective in defusing the situation without pulling the trigger, that shows that it's the person being effective - the pistol is just a tool to help present and project the effectiveness of that person at a short range distance.

BTW - I would recommend against utilizing your verbage that you just posted. Firing in anger is not a good thing...nor is it good for a jury to hear either. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

STFU... you don't know **** wannabe cop boy.

[Andy C]

Good point - "in anger" was just quicker to type than "in self defense or in the defense of a third party". The use of the word anger in front of a judge is going to make you look pretty stupid.

[Toadies]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
I personally do not think the platform is the right one for the average person on a PD level.

Toadies made some comment about most engagements being made within 21 feet, hence my reference to feet. A handgun is for personal defense, period.

This is why the Glock was developed. It is the easiest pistol to use and has a smooth profile. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most people can't shoot so sure give em a 9mm pussy gun.

Most tactical engagements are 21 feet or less and LE experience comes a lot closer to real life than your pretend Marine experience. Ayoob has credentials, you have an innerweb rep.

Tupperware guns are for idiot operators that do not want to learn how to use a handgun so DAO is the best for those idiots..

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Beastmaster:
No. He's not the type to be scared off. He gathers information and waits patiently. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He gathers no information.. leastwise not "correct" information. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You obviously did not get the inference there. Never heard of a USMC S/S before?

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:

If you want to be stupid with your own life, fine. Otherwise, move on and quit giving advice here on crap you know nothing about on something as important as this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


RAAARRR!!!!1 I am a goddamn navy bellhop and I know all...

RAAARRRRR!!!!1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You're an idiot. Kinda funny, but an idiot.
Sssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
You're making a fool of yourself.

Sean

[ree]

Toadies, what an idiot, you're all over the map on everything except your idiocy:
- Glocks only come in 9mm now, eh?
- Tupperware == DAO, huh?

I think many an experienced/non-idiot operator have explicitly chosen DA/SA and DAO guns specifically because they can take extra steps out of the equation during an up close situation when you're going to be impaired by an adrenaline spike. I primarily shoot a DA/SA for this reason...not because I'm too lazy to learn how to handle my weapon (btw it's tupperware too, just not a Glock, it's a Sig).

[PARAGON]

Yeah, I have one of those bricks with a trigger. 'cept mine is a P91. It's a stash gun in the house and not much more as I never really fell in love with shooting it.

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
real guns are made of metal and metal alloys NOT plastic and come in calibres of .40 or better.

The best round bar none is a .45 230 grain hollowpoint in +P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to respectfully disagree. The best gun - and the best round - is the one you have with you when you need it.

Sean

[DennisAJC]

Where aboots in Canada are you from????

[Toadies]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr. I - Man:
To each his own, I have never have a problem with this fine piece of German engineering. Had hot loads pop off in the chamber, bad reload ( split casing) & still cycled through all 15 rounds. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ANYONE using reloads in a tupperware gun is a dumbass asking to have his hand blown off. If you want to reload stick to a big boy gun like the Sig, Kimber, Wilsons, Springfield Armory, etc.....

Glockies are best with factory ammo.. Even Gaston says so...

[PARAGON]

Well, I don't think I have the intelligence to break down into terms you can understand why things are not so black and white.

If you want facts about what caliber and what handguns are good for everyday use, consult the FBI. Better yet go peruse their terminal ballistic studies and figure it out for yourself.

Storytoads, you have openly shown your ignorance in yet another subject. I offered up several holes for you to actively argue and you showed your blatent lack of knowledge on this issue and that anything posted by you is very subject.

Do you really think it would be a published fact that We wanted a different round because the .45 lacks the penetration of other rounds? Range is not just about accuracy, it is the terminal ability of the round, and a pistol projectile that does not penetrate will get the shooter killed. This is why I personally do not chamber HydraShoks. If I knew the contact was going to be at 10 feet, a .45 with HydraShoks would be great, but I can't predict the encounter and choose to have the best option for all engagements.

Everybody has their opinions, some are based on experience or knowledge. StoryToad, you have shown that you have neither.

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:

If you want to be stupid with your own life, fine. Otherwise, move on and quit giving advice here on crap you know nothing about on something as important as this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


RAAARRR!!!!1 I am a goddamn navy bellhop and I know all...

RAAARRRRR!!!!1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You're an idiot. Kinda funny, but an idiot.
Sssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
You're making a fool of yourself.

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am deaf and I will thank you NOT to make fun of the handicap. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This Toadies = AE for some dickhead

[GeorgeSSSS]

Hmmm. I never liked Glocks until my friend's son who is a SEAL officer chose one in 45 ACP for his service weapon. I still don't like them, but he changed my thinking about how capable a weapon it is.

I shot a friend's Colt 45 Gold Cup series 70(?) about 15 years ago. The combination of slow burning powder and smooth trigger action allowed me to put seven shots on the forehead of a lifesize silouette target at 25 yards. I could never do that now with my old-guy eyes. But that was my experience with a model 1911.

As far as my favorite sidearm? S&W Model 29, 44 mag. Lots O' noise, lots O' kick, and lots O' fun. Damn accurate too.

Best regards,

George SSSS

[Petey]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Humgirl&guy:
Here in canada we cannot carry handguns, Just shotguns and beer! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bull****..

Julian does it all the time on TPBs...

[Mr. I - Man]

Dick

[Beastmaster]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Andy C H2 hasbeen:
Interesting thread - all I want to know is this - all you guys spouting off about distances and trajectorys and dependability and ease of use and guns blowing up in your hands when they are needed most - have any of you actually ever been involved in a CIVILLIAN situation where you actually needed to pull and fire a weapon.

Just out of interest.

I have fired hundreds of rounds through my Ruger P90 and it never blew up on me - what are the chances of this happening on the one occassion that I might possibly need to use it in anger - pretty slim I would imagine.

Any gun is only as effective as the person behind it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that's my argument. A brand name pistol (Ruger, Glock, S&W, Colt, Kimber, H&K, Sig, Kahr, Walther, Wilson, etc.) will be one of those that you can trust your life on. I want to know that the pistol (when kept in even somewhat deplorable conditions) will fire a round when I pull the trigger.

As for being in a Civilian situation in which I needed to unholster my sidearm - no. In a past professional situation, yes, I have had to unholster my sidearm or utilize and present a long gun.

I can definitely say (with some level of pride, I might add) that I have NEVER had to fire my sidearm (or any long gun for that matter) in self defense or in the defense of a third party. I sincerely hope I never have to, or be placed into a situation in which I do have to defend myself or defend a third party.

And you bring up a good point - if the person behind the pistol is effective in defusing the situation without pulling the trigger, that shows that it's the person being effective - the pistol is just a tool to help present and project the effectiveness of that person at a short range distance.

BTW - I would recommend against utilizing your verbage that you just posted. Firing in anger is not a good thing...nor is it good for a jury to hear either.