Why the FJ Cruiser is no Threat to the H3

[31_bandits]

Originally Posted by Mooncricket

I admire them both.....and I really like the H2 and it's capabilities.........

but you are not convincing me that I cant compare a stock vehicle to a built up vehicle. If your going to get into wheeling your going to want to modify your vehicle at some point. So doesnt the ease of modifying that vehicle and the price of modifying it come into play somewhere? The H2 is good in stock form, YES! One of the BEST!

But show me an H2 with solid front and rear axles, e-locker front and rear, center diff locker, and some of the other doo dads they have. The Land Cruiser is very comparable to the H2..........trust me........

well not to be a pest, but all H2s have center and rear lockers (which i'm sure you know). PhilDs has a front locker, i think i'm going to spring for one as well, but i'm not sure when i'd need it. So the solid axles are the hangup??

As for the landcruiser -vs- H2 stock (H2 values for air suspension)

clearance: Landcruiser=8.3 & 9.8 depending on where you look, H2= (10 to rear axle housing, 10.8 rated)
The hummers are rated accurately for minimum ground clearance. alot of other vehicles are over-stated for clearance. several pickups come to mind (toyota tundra), the Wrangler Rubi is rated at 10.something, but is <9" to the differentials, same for the FJ, and so forth. For example, the big 'yota pickup is rated higher than the H2, i think, for clearance, but with the two sitting side by side i can't imagine how they determined this.

I'll go measure a landcruiser and post the results. and my hummer. with the same ruler. it won't be closer than 1-2".

approach angle: h2=43, landcruiser=31
departure angle: H2=40, landcruiser=24
breakover angle: H2=27.5, landcruiser=24

locking diffs: H2, center and rear
landcruiser: center only

crawl ratio: similar

The hummers suspension is more modern i'd wager, and i'd wager its traction control system also outclasses that on the Landcruiser.

And considering that in my humble, and not that impressive offroading, i've found times that the H2s approach/departure/clearance are challenged (though really not its traction except in mud), i shall humbly wager that the landcruiser will ram its nose into alot of things & generally not be a match for the stock hummer.

and its fairly gay, and doesn't cause a going-on-5-year panic among web-jeepers, both of which are fairly enjoyable traits of the H2 (non-gayness and jeep freakouts).


With respect to the solid front axel. I am not an offroading expert, and certainly not as much as you may be (or may not, i guess), but i don't think that you always want a solid front axel. Driving fast on bumpy roads comes to mind.

and a built up Jeep is in it's own league.....

i selectively clipped your comment to be a pain.

I think a stock H2 could stand up to or beat at least the vast majority of build 4wds in an offroad "race" across a bumpy/tossy surface and i think it could climb steeper hills, and especially turn onto steep slopes. I suspect that the width and length = stability (center of gravity thing, draw some lines, if it doesn't go over the lines you're good). See, i think a "built" jeep would enhance both the strengths and weaknesses of a stock Rubi. So the things the H2 is better at it would only be more better at, and vice-versa.

I politely accept that your rig can do a great many things better than mine. And i'm not disrespecting it at all, but i think my butt-stock rig could outperform yours at many things as well. And in the places i've found to offroad, big rocks aren't, and big hills & bumpy trails are.

this message edited due to bandits hesitance over internet novicedom. It was more (but not impolitely) challenging before.

[31_bandits]

i'm also sure / i accept / that there are times when two solid axles would be preferable.

and maybe there are tiems when independent front and back would be best, what do i know?

[31_bandits]

it seems to me, just my two pennies, that to compare things, you can do any of the following

-compare two vehicles, whatever form they may be in

-cmopare stock vehicles. that would be relevant to jeep-vs-hummer. you'd need the same places (and a variety of places, mind) and the same or comparable drivers. and no 100000000% subjective jpmagazine BS, you'd have to simply have pass/fail for a series of obstacles.

-compare the build-potential of a variety of vehicles. what can be built starting from a jeep or a hummer or whatever. but even then you'd have to have the same person build the thing with the same quota of available options - or feasibly available options.


but you can't say "landcruisers rule" or "jeeps rule" based on a wild non-jeep or non-landcruiser.


that's like strapping a rocket motor on a sophia and screaming "kias are the fastest cars on the road!!!!"

[ShaggyX]

FWIW...body clearance does not factor into "Minimum Clearance". Just because a truck looks like it sits higher...doesnt mean it has more Minimum clearance. Tire size and axle configuration are really the only 2 factors for Minimum clearance.

In the grand scheme of things I would imagine it really just comes down to personal preferance. For pure off-road give me a Tacoma TRD any day (in hindsight...that would have been a better purchase then the Xterra). That is probably my ideal configuration. 32's stock. Rear locker. Long Wheelbase. Minimal weight. Probably the perfect truck for me.

Put an H2 owner behind the wheel of an H2 and a Taco and the H2 will do better 99% of the time

Put me behind the wheel of an H2 and a Taco (bear in mind I have never actually driven a Taco...this is based on my experience with my former s10 Zr2) and the Taco will do better 99% of the time (I do not "Baja"...so that does not factor into the equation).

[31_bandits]

yeah, i see your point about wheels + axle. the other clearance specs are dubious as well, though, as presented by alot of brands. Somebody should just take a ruler, an afternoon, and make a same-basis database, that would be funny.

i think i might take a taco in the mud. i also think the factory H2 tires suck in mud, and i'm not sure that the TCS helps yoru cause either, somehow i think i'd rather have wanton runaway wheel spin. but then i really am not a mud bogging guru.

anyway, i think that the "jeep-vs-hummer" as commonly presented boil about down to this:

look you guys, monte carlos are way faster than ferarris!!!



crazy bugger idiots that bought F360s!




I think it would be interesting to sort of have a contest for stock vehicles, and also for build-potential with different vehicles. and for build-potential while retaining reasonable daily driver, or at least occasional street-driver performance. somebody should do that.

[Aubs]

Originally Posted by DTHVLY

Stock FJ (other than ARB bumper) on Hells Gate and Potato Salad.

Not one of those pictures actually proves anything. There's no way to know if they made it up Hell's Gate, and Potato Salad, as others have said, probably was winched and maybe photoshopped! Notice that vehicle sitting conspicously in the last picture. It's aimed downhill, like it's winch might be facing the FJ... And I can now see the corporate tags!

I still want to see FJ vs. H3. I know the H3 would destroy the FJ. So where are the vids of an FJ not stuck in a mud puddle, and where's the FJ following an H3. That's what I want to see, and I still have not seen it!!!

[NEOCON1]

its a freakin ELEMENT !!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO

[DRTYFN]

Ohhhh, what could have been.

[NEOCON1]

yea we were really disapointed when he showed up in the x-mobile we really wanted to see the KY-cruiser / ELEMENT but he knew the X-mobile was way straighter

[NEOCON1]

here is the MOAB KY CRUISER check out that ground clearance

[Aubs]

Originally Posted by NEOCON1

here is the MOAB KY CRUISER check out that ground clearance

Yah man, dat is de sheet right there. I bet you get reelly good gas miles because it got da more aerodynamics. I like eat. Dos reems are reelly nice too. When the policeman shoot your tyres, you can like go for mucho miles.

[31_bandits]

you guys are funny!

[BlueTJCO]

a ****ing stock jeep with 31 inch tires will make it hells gate, why the hell do you think that FJ didn't

And to quote myself, "a built jeep is in a league of it's own".......I didn't mean that nothing compares or can outwheel them. I just meant, there really is nothing to compare them to. H1, H2, H3......those are more comparable to Grand Cherokee, Orig. Cherokee, Liberty.........models like that. The wrangler is not marketed or meant for families that are wanting to carry all of their gear in the car and go on a weekend wheeling trip. They fill a very small nitch for those who truely enjoy driving them but the only rigs I'd compare them to again, D-90, SAMI, G-Class (older), and other wranglers...........

AUBS, I cant wait to wheel with you......... you seem clueless kinda like JONNYHASMOREFUN and I enjoyed listening and watching that jack ass all day long

AND Finally SHAGGY.........I 100% agree with you....I think that the TACOMA TRD with a minimal amount of work is where it is at ....

AND my final comments about the Land Cruiser........I'm talking about a "built" 80 series cruiser. I am not comparing them stock to stock and I dont care to.........It has been a long time since I've been on the trails and wheeled with a "majority" stock crowd......it just doesnt happen. People here in Colorado that enjoy the hobby seem to build their **** and build it well. I dont even remember the last "stock" H2 that I wheeled with.......???????????............there are plenty of "poser" jeeps and "poser" vehicles in general around here but the majority of people that wheel here have "built" rigs.........

[Aubs]

I may be clueless, but Johnny Carson was a funny man, and because John Candy was overweight my cousin became an IT specialist who founded the internet with Al Gore. Al Gore is my best friend. Al Gore says you're a doo-doo head.

I probably am clueless, but I still have no idea why you'd want an oversized, tipsy monster of a vehicle. I know the bigger the tires, the more the things tend to walk on the highway, the higher the suspension the more body roll and less accident avoidance, and the whole setup begs for mechanical failure.

But you can have your modified beasts, and I'll stick to my better resale, highly comfortable, safe, low center of gravity, easy to drive stock vehicle which, since I didn't throw my money into uselessness, I can buy all kinds of fancy gizmos.

I do find it funny though that most everyone disagrees with this whole argument that FJ is god, and Mod is God, and thinks the FJ is a POS!

[BlueTJCO]

I definately dont think the FJ is god and I think they are ugly and queer looking. But they do have the "makings" of a good 4x4 platform. The "pradas" have been wheeled over seas for a long time and are pretty kick ass from what I have read. I think the FJ is a fairly good off-road machine and would prob keep up with an H3...................I'm sure it wont be long til someone finds this out..........

I dont like "big beasts" vehicles or jeeps for that matter. I run a very mild set-up but it is dialed in well. I run open differentials with 32 inch tires and a 3.5 inch lift and can keep up with just about anyone on a 7-8 rated trail out here in Colorado. I cant even begin to imagine what my Jeep would be capable of if I decided to throw 8 grand into it ..... One thing I've learned is that Driver Skill and capability is 80% of it.............

[BlueTJCO]

Originally Posted by sfox

. "Most people that buy them just see them as a small SUV with a removable top and nothing more."

S

and thats not a niche in the market

[BlueTJCO]

Originally Posted by Mooncricket

and thats not a niche in the market

no not missing any point. It's the ONLY small suv that you can take the top off of, and it happens to be a capable 4x4..............Can you think of any other vehicles on the market that can do that? Is that not "filling a niche"????????????