HELP! Supercharger ???'s

[CONRAD II]

Ok, I got my magnuson supercharger installed last week and picked it up yesterday. Tonight on the way back from dinner I noticed that my air/fuel gauge started blinking and was maxed out into the red zone on the right hand side. When I sped up it stopped blinking but when I let off the gas it started again. Next thing I know I look at my dash and my check engine light comes on.Am I running to lean or too rich? Can I still drive my rig untill Monday when I can have it looked at by the installers. Ahhhh! This sucks, I want to play with my new toy but I DONT want to grenade the engine!

[Gooey Gaybob]

Originally Posted by CONRAD II

Ok, I got my magnuson supercharger installed last week and picked it up yesterday. Tonight on the way back from dinner I noticed that my air/fuel gauge started blinking and was maxed out into the red zone on the right hand side. When I sped up it stopped blinking but when I let off the gas it started again. Next thing I know I look at my dash and my check engine light comes on.Am I running to lean or too rich? Can I still drive my rig untill Monday when I can have it looked at by the installers. Ahhhh! This sucks, I want to play with my new toy but I DONT want to grenade the engine!

If you have to ask these questions, then park the damned thing and wait for someone without their head in their ass to look at it. I bet if you did the work yourself you would know what to do.

[CONRAD II]

Thanks for your help As@h*le! Go back to being GAY BOB. Any real help would be very appreciated! I don't want to take any unnecessary chances!

[CONRAD II]

By the way if you want to be completely discusted click on GAYBOBS profile and look at his previous posts. FREAK. I think what he meant to say is he wants a head up his own ass. A gay hummer troll, thats a first for me.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

CONRAD

It is possible that You have a problem with air/fuel on one side for many reasons. I would park it and if Your programmer will read the codes do so and clear it. Then see if it comes back on when You drive it slowly or normally to the shop. Do not go hard do not for a even a second to test and see if it will happen again. Go to the shop slowly or I should under no boost. If shop is far and You get any kind of lights have it towed the rest of the way. I'm sorry to be an alarmist but, a tow bill is a lot cheaper than toasting an engine.

TAZ

[CONRAD II]

Taz, thanks for the reply. I think if I just push the onstar button they should be able to tell me why the check engine light came on in the first place. I'm assuming its and air/fuel ratio problem but there's no way for me to tell for sure. When the gauge did go off into the red zone and started blinking it was under little or no boost and I was off the gas. The air/fuel gauge read normal once I gave it a little throttle. Don't know if that helps diagnose anything? What are some possible problems that would lead to this? Have you had any issues with your charger? Again, thanks for your help.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Conrad

You could have had a momentary block in the fuel rail on that side. You have to be careful about the install being clean. If they added the extra fuel pump or changed in tank fuel pump allot of lines had to be unconnected and just all the fuel system R&R. I do not mean so as to be paranoid clean just careful. Letting up and then more throttle could have unpluged it. Without reading the code it is guess work.

We did put the small pulley on once and the H2 launched good on first take off and it was awsome at 10lbs. of boost. If You ever saw KENP's launch video in his LPE SC setup it was like that and magnified. I after watching Ken's launch was able to anticipate what was coming but, it was just even more torque steer at 10lbs. of boost than i expected. I after that got check engine light and rig ran OK but, nothing like when the kit pulley was on with kit tune at 6lbs. of boost. This was all predictable we were just messing around. We have on the WOT runs failed to get out of the rich reading though.

I would still go back to install shop and have it all checked. Better safe than sorry.

TAZ

[obzidian]

Tax is right when he saying that there could be a problem you should be paranoid for.

The right hand side of the AFR gauge is Lean condition, which is BAD, umm-kay!! Strangely, your stating that you only exerience it with the motor on no or very little load, of at vacuum. If the gauge isn't faulty, which i can only assume since your rigs check engine light went of as well, then you have a serious probably. Your not getting enough fuel versus air into the engine. Furthermore, your saying that when you start moving, your fine.....

Ok, the first thing i would do is call the shop who did the install and explain to them the problem. Also, I would mention that the rig is not driveable, TO YOU, and that they would need to either send someone or send a tow rig to get the truck to their place. Secondly, I would start with the simple stuff.

* Scan the engine and check codes, if any.THEN, scan for a misfire code on any or ALL cylinders. Scan while, very quickly though, you see the AFR gauge pegged on lean and while it is not. (Gotta be careful here)
* Check your injector harness connections for a faulty connection.
* Check the MAIN fuel injector harness for a faulty connection as well.
* Remove injectors and check for any debri (quite difficult but worth it.).
* Check, if any, new installed fuel lines, grounds, rails, -an fittings, etc.
* Im not sure exactly what the internalreg is on a 6.0L, but check for fuel pressure at the rails and it should read at 60psi, or closely around that.
* Also, check your o2 sensors just for safe keeping.
* Check spark plugs for any signs of lean conditions.
* Any silly wiring or grounds that aren't grounded correctly, stupid stuff like that has blown a SH!T load of motors before, so dont think its stupid.

Two things: What tune do you have in the rig right now and what did you do for the added fuel requirement with the supercharger? First, i ask because if its the stock tune, then i would check it and make a claim to manuson if things go wrong and you cannot find any other reason why your exhibting a lean condition (more air than fuel past 14.7 afr ) at idle through mechanical issues. Secondly, if someone else tuned it, then please check to see what he may have done with your fuel trims in your non-WOT tables. That person will have to answer to any problems with your rig.

This is something quite serious so becareful. A lean condition will REALLY ruin your day!! Its not the superchargers fault, there is something in the system that is not feeding enough fuel, of it isn't getting to a cylinder(s) correctly, or your engine parameters are reading correctly and thinks theres a lean condition when there is non. Hey, did you change the MAF with the install? Also, is the AFR gauge is wideband or narroband gauge.?

You might just a condition where the engine thinks its getting more air than it really is and trimming some of the fuel at idle. HMM... does that blower have an internal bypass or internal blowoff valve? If so, it COULD be stuck shut and dumping more air at idle than normally expected at idle. Also, you might have an air leak and getting more air in at idle, though i doubt that if your engine can even hold idle in the first place.There are SO MANY THINGS that could be wrong, ya'll just gotta find the right one. Don't worry, it'll get fixed!!

Here's another one, im assuming it didn't do it as soon as you left the shop, so it was something that happened with time? These motor go through a learning stage that recalibrates its timing/spark/fuel trims accordingly. How many miles you think you traveled before you noticed the lean condition? You can try a "tune-reset", drive around for about and hour and see if it does it again. However, this would be the last thing i would do if you have tried just about everything else.

good luck bra!!!

[obzidian]

Originally Posted by HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ

Conrad

You could have had a momentary block in the fuel rail on that side. You have to be careful about the install being clean. If they added the extra fuel pump or changed in tank fuel pump allot of lines had to be unconnected and just all the fuel system R&R. I do not mean so as to be paranoid clean just careful. Letting up and then more throttle could have unpluged it. Without reading the code it is guess work.

We did put the small pulley on once and the H2 launched good on first take off and it was awsome at 10lbs. of boost. If You ever saw KENP's launch video in his LPE SC setup it was like that and magnified. I after watching Ken's launch was able to anticipate what was coming but, it was just even more torque steer at 10lbs. of boost than i expected. I after that got check engine light and rig ran OK but, nothing like when the kit pulley was on with kit tune at 6lbs. of boost. This was all predictable we were just messing around. We have on the WOT runs failed to get out of the rich reading though.


I would still go back to install shop and have it all checked. Better safe than sorry.

TAZ

I hate to thread jack, since this seems very important, but, i have to ask, what did ya'll do for the tune at 10lbs? What was the AFR @ WOT at 10lbs before she went to limp mode? Are yall running a 112 blower with a 67-70mm or STOCK TB?

Sorry, conrad, had to ask?!

[CONRAD II]

OBZ
Thanks for all your help. I did put a volant MAF on about a year ago and noticed that it was not changed with the supercharger install. Could that be a prob? Also I'm taking your advice and either having the shop tow it or send someone out here. By the way my gauge is reading 14.6 pretty steady at idle. I'll let you guys know when I get a verdict...

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ

CONRAD

It is possible that You have a problem with air/fuel on one side for many reasons. I would park it and if Your programmer will read the codes do so and clear it. Then see if it comes back on when You drive it slowly or normally to the shop. Do not go hard do not for a even a second to test and see if it will happen again. Go to the shop slowly or I should under no boost. If shop is far and You get any kind of lights have it towed the rest of the way. I'm sorry to be an alarmist but, a tow bill is a lot cheaper than toasting an engine.

TAZ

I agree. I think that the ECM will compensate a certain amount to get it to the shop. Under NO circumstances would I be allowing the supercharger go into boost.

Just out of curiousity, what programming are you using?

I (and my tech friend) installed my Maggie this weekend and used Nelson's programming. Unfortunately since I need a few brackets and stuff, I didn't get to drive my beast home but the only code that showed was a throttle position sensor needed to be reprogrammed.

Good luck, keep us informed.

Mark

[obzidian]

Is that what it reads when you say its all the way to the right?

Im not saying that it is the volant maf, however, the reason they make "power" is by telling the PCM that it is getting an amount of air while in reality, it is not. For example, let say your stock afr was at 10.0 at WOT. In order to make, theoretically, more power, you would need to lower the amount of fuel being dumped into a cylinder in order to reach the max torque or HP with a specific afr. Some like to go over 13.0, while others tune it safe, fuel wise, and say the tune is "pig-rich" for safety. Better rich than lean.

Thus, the newly calibrated MAF is PROBABLY telling your computer it is getting a higher amount of air than what your motor is really getting. IF you notice, and i think TAZ has mentioned this a bazzillion times lol well, its true. MOST tuners will swap back to a stock maf as the readings it gives is stock in nature, not modified which can be finiky when tuning.

ANYWAYS.... hold a sec!! What gauge do you have? A narrowband or wideband? I ask because i wanta know how you know it says 14.6? Also, if its a autometer, i think all of their gauges read lean to the left, ma being 20 afr.

However, if its an aem wideband, then lean is on the right. Anyways 14.6 is about stock, non-pe tables/wot AFR. You drive like this all day long when not in WOT/power enrichment mode. If it can hold that securely enough for a while when you drive around, then you can make it to the shop ok.. just make sure it doesn't go over 14.7. You see 15.0, over the gauge shooting up quickly, shut her off.. and try to record what exactly you were doing if/when if would go above 14.7.

14.6 is fine... anything higher than that, like a 16.0.... watchout!!

Do you have a pic of your gauge or a link to a site? Thanks!!

[Gooey Gaybob]

Originally Posted by CONRAD II

Thanks for your help As@h*le! Go back to being GAY BOB. Any real help would be very appreciated! I don't want to take any unnecessary chances!

I see your head is still in your ass. Sorry to hear that.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

obz at WOT at 10lbs. I read rich. I did not have laptop so i could not get the wideband numbers. I use a nice set of lights one for each bank of engine. They have a nice safety margin in them as they read the color in general ahead of the actual AF condition so that if it is getting to lean You can at a glance under WOT see it like You would be glancing at any guage. They are run off factory AF sensor. I will be using the wideband for serious tuning shortly. I can with on board computer put the actual wideband numbers up on the dash screen with HPTUNERS software but, i have to look down (bad) and to the right (bad) to much so thus the 4 light system one set for each bank let's me see looking straight ahead.

I'm running the stock TB at this time. Not sure where i will go with that yet.

The tune was actual the kit tune which strangely the computer was able to get a good enough reading off the MAF and mix enough fuel for the first tune and launch in an awesome run. Then it did not actually act like it went to limp mode because it would still run real good and all gauges looked Ok as far as safe and not hurting anything. It was just wierd as I could pull the tune and put it back in and then another great launch.

We have put the kit pulley back on it for a good while and with headers all the add ons it runs good enough if i just were not into making it go and continue pushing it the mall queen runs really good with kit tune etc. at 6lbs. of boost that with an HPTUNERS tune at 6lbs. it would be a monster. I like to see what kind of beast i can let loose out of "The Beastly Beauty"

TAZ

[CONRAD II]

Hey Gay bob stop reading my post your arse. If you were not such a prick you would have something better to do. Go sit on something with AIDS and spin!

Taz and Obz thanks for all your help. I got my truck back and the shop said that the oxygen sensor had come loose, causing the check engine light to come on. Also, they had to change some programming in order for the volant maf to work proper. I drove it about an hour today to the country and it never varied much below or over 14.5 on the af gauge. I know that my gauge reads lean to the right rich to the left. My tuner told me that variance is normal though. On the way back tonight I averaged 14.5 but under throttle the number usually dipped some and sometimes when I backed off the gauge would read up to 16 but never stayed for more than 3 secs and dipped instantly when I gave the engine some throttle. The truck ran great the entire time and my check engine light did not come back on. Am I still in dangerous territory? Am I being paranoid? Dose the problem sound solved?

[CONRAD II]

Also sitting in idle it almost always at 14.6. But my gauge is always going back and forth between up and down usually rich for the first few secs after boost as it speeds up and ramdomly will seem to peg 16 but almost always under little throttle or coasting at speed. Cobalt makes the af gauge. Again, the truck seems to run just fine the whole time all this stuff is happening and no more check engine light???? Also it always only reads lean under vaccum not boost. The saga continues...

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

The only time the af guage is of real importance is at WOT. The rest of the time I would not worry about it much.

I run a light system and I have a switch in line to cut power as the lights run up and down blue to red under normal driving. So unless i know I'm going to be in a WOT run I have them turned off. Boost gauge and fuel pressure gauges stay on.

TAZ

[CONRAD II]

Awesome I'm glad your on line! So why is there such variance, is it just the gauges showing compensation for vaccum vs. boost under normal driving conditions? Another weird thing is that my gaughe is wide band and red/lean is on the right and rich/yellow is on the left. It also gives the ratio 14.6 etc. Most of the cobalt gauges i've seen are the exact opposite. I just hope I finally get to start enjoying my charger instead of waiting for the engine to grenade.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

You got the idea. Plus it is just af jumping around at cruise or slow down so the vacuum sort of mirrors that.

TAZ