Moab Spring 2K6 Pics

[GeneseeMtn]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/geneseemtn/Hells%20Revenge/DSC00066.jpg

[GeneseeMtn]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/geneseemtn/Hells%20Revenge/DSC00070.jpg

[GeneseeMtn]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/geneseemtn/Hells%20Revenge/DSC00075.jpg

[GeneseeMtn]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/geneseemtn/Hells%20Revenge/DSC00076.jpg

[GeneseeMtn]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/geneseemtn/Hells%20Revenge/DSC00078.jpg

[GeneseeMtn]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/geneseemtn/Hells%20Revenge/DSC00081.jpg

[PackerFever]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
well just H2rocks and the Bebe rhino are still in town with us
Bebe is getting fixed just front ring-gear for her http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif wont know about the neocon1 till i talk with dealer tomorrow nothing happens in utah on sunday . funny how as usual an H2er is here to help with our ordeal .
will post more later gottas go help rocks she just lost another tie-rod http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif OMG

Cool that you still have company as well. So can you guys say more about what you were doing when the various damage occured? I am tryihng to figure out if you knew what went wrong or if it was just freak out of the blue things? Also official diagnosis and $$$$ to fix. :gulp:

Looking forward to some of the photos you guys were taking the other day as well.

[Mrs.ssippi]

Originally posted by GeneseeMtn:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/geneseemtn/Hells%20Revenge/DSC00044.jpg


What the hell? Was there a second coming and I missed it? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[GeneseeMtn]

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[GeneseeMtn]

bebe's sunroof view
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/geneseemtn/Hells%20Revenge/DSC00089.jpg

[GeneseeMtn]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/geneseemtn/Hells%20Revenge/DSC00091.jpg

[GeneseeMtn]

The peanut gallery at hell's gate:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/geneseemtn/Hells%20Revenge/DSC00099.jpg

[GeneseeMtn]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/geneseemtn/Hells%20Revenge/DSC00100.jpg

[GeneseeMtn]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/geneseemtn/Hells%20Revenge/DSC00102.jpg

[GeneseeMtn]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/geneseemtn/Hells%20Revenge/DSC00104.jpg

[GeneseeMtn]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/geneseemtn/Hells%20Revenge/DSC00105.jpg

[GeneseeMtn]

I ran out of camera memory at Hell's Gate. The professional photographer's shots should be ready in a few days to post.

[GeneseeMtn]

Not a "PEEP" out of BEBE on the way down to Hell's Gate:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/geneseemtn/Hells%20Revenge/DSC00082.jpg

[GeneseeMtn]

After the "squeeze."
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h249/geneseemtn/Hells%20Revenge/DSC00106.jpg

[GeneseeMtn]

Bebe is getting fixed just front ring-gear for her wont know about the neocon1 till i talk with dealer tomorrow nothing happens in utah on sunday

Must run Golden Spike early in the week next year so you can order parts, fedex them & complete the fix by the time you need to go home.

[NEOCON1]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by NEOCON1:
well just H2rocks and the Bebe rhino are still in town with us
Bebe is getting fixed just front ring-gear for her http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif wont know about the neocon1 till i talk with dealer tomorrow nothing happens in utah on sunday . funny how as usual an H2er is here to help with our ordeal .

never mind " what happens in moab stays in moab " http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[NEOCON1]

Cool that you still have company as well. So can you guys say more about what you were doing when the various damage occured? I am tryihng to figure out if you knew what went wrong or if it was just freak out of the blue things? Also official diagnosis and $$$$ to fix. :gulp:

hey fever pm me for the carnage report , i have over 400 pics but wont be able to post until i get back home whenever that will be http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[NoMoGMPG]

Not that you really care, but I didn't have internet access so I'm a little late posting.

I wanted to thank everbody for making the Hell's Revenge trail a real memory maker, it was a blast having H1/2/3's all working together to have a great time. I trully believe every model was well represented and the comraderie was promising. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I especially wanted to give major kudos to three drivers, HummBEBE, H2Co-Pilot, and LVS, all of whom showed outstanding driving ability and did not fade from ANY obstacle. This is not taking away from everyone else's ability or courage, it is just pleasing to me that the women did so damn well. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Shaggy, what can I say, your Xterra surprised the hell outta me. Now lift it. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I was a little concerned for you all on the Spike when I heard about the carnage you endured. I want you all to know that everyone in our group were ready to help if you needed us, no BS, every one. We all know what it was like. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Oh yeah, Alec, you scared the hell out of me on TipOver Challenge. Good Job. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[dochummer]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
well just H2rocks and the Bebe rhino are still in town with us
.

Atleast you're in good company! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[westhillsat]

Hang in there Neo, we got home and it is now 26 degrees. Wish we were back in Moab http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[HummBebe]

Originally posted by NoMoGMPG:
I especially wanted to give major kudos to three drivers, HummBEBE, H2Co-Pilot, and LVS, all of whom showed outstanding driving ability and did not fade from ANY obstacle. This is not taking away from everyone else's ability or courage, it is just pleasing to me that the women did so damn well. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

No...Thank you. You were all great, and I will always remember how everyone on this trip stuck it out, stuck together, and made it an incredible event.

Can't wait to go again.

Next on my list:

Escalator
Golden Stairs (I'm going to own those fukkers next time)
Potato Salad
Tip Over
Body Snatcher

Thanks everyone:
Alec, for getting me off the trail
Alan, for being a great trail leader
Adam, well, you're just a tie rod masterhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Ken and Co-P, for your support and kindness
Rocks...we're not done having fun yet.

I feel like I'm writing this for the Oscars http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[KenP]

I'm sorry I couldn't help out on GS. After turning my ankle... well, you saw...

Only two runs on your list are of a concern to me, Stairs and PSH. The diffs MUST be strengthened or you'll have the same problem.

Just my opinion, but I think I'm pretty close to correct. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I bet you're home before I am. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by KenP:
The diffs MUST be strengthened or you'll have the same problem.

I agree. I was shocked how quickly they imploded. The weak point on the obstacles like the Golden Stairs should be wheel spin. The diffs should have easily been able to handle not having enough momemtum early enough and have just spun out the wheels. But the drivetrains just seemed to bust right under a little excess torque.

[NEOCON1]

wheel hop is wery wery bad , now we know how far we can push them , they are great crawlers but whatch out if you try to power thru and start getting wheel hop http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif cant wait to come back in aug with the nor. cal. group at least now we know when to wench them up stuff http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif the lil ones did pretty damn good IMO http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
wheel hop is wery wery bad , now we know how far we can push them , they are great crawlers but whatch out if you try to power thru and start getting wheel hop http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif cant wait to come back in aug with the nor. cal. group at least now we know when to wench them up stuff http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif the lil ones did pretty damn good IMO http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Neo,
I don't think it has anything to do with wheel hop. I was standing 2 feet from Bebe's rig. Bebe did not hop. She simply gave it some gas a little late when here wheels were already press up against the top and bottom ledges. That shouldn't have been a problem. She didn't get close to hopping her wheels. The front enter just broke right off the bat under torque. Also, I didn't see you with any wheel hop either. Same thing - just some extra torque and the drivetrain seemed to crumble.

You are right about the H3s doing well tho. They walked everything with ease all week. But something needs to be done to strenghten the drivetrain.

[PARAGON]

So, in theory, you pull up to brick wall and slowly apply torque and the diffs will pop? Is that sort of how it happened?

It wasn't a violent breakage and no wheels turning over? Do we know what broke? Teeth? or shattered ring? or what?

[PARAGON]

Neo, do you remember what was going on when yours went down and how it felt/sounded initially?

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
So, in theory, you pull up to brick wall and slowly apply torque and the diffs will pop? Is that sort of how it happened?

Exactly.

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
Neo, do you remember what was going on when yours went down and how it felt/sounded initially?

I was 10 feet from Neo's rig when it blew too. He wasn't even up to the top of the Golden Stairs yet (where both wheels would have been press up against a ledge). I think something happened earlier to weaken his drivetrain because he wasn't doing that much when his front and rear exploded.

[PARAGON]

So much for the underpowered comments http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
So much for the underpowered comments http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bebe was telling me that the H3 has some special crap to transfer the torque around between the front and back. I think it might have something to do with that. Her front broke under very little actual pressure. She didn't rev it that hard, nor for very long. It broke almost immediately.

[MarineHawk]

In hindsight, is it possible that the 2.56:1 transfer case ratio would be better than than the 4:1? Less stress?

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by MarineHawk:
In hindsight, is it possible that the 2.56:1 transfer case ratio would be better than than the 4:1? Less stress?

I'd go with 220 or 221, whatever it takes. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by sfox:
Just out of curiousity, what t-case mode was the H3 in before it grenaded?

S

4-low, I'm sure. Who would that obstacle in anything else?

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by sfox:
Doesn't 4-Lo lock the power ratio at 50/50 in the H3 just like any other 4x4 with a locking t-case? Just curious, because having seen Golden Stairs, I wouldn't have thought you'd break a front diff without wheel hop which doesn't seem like the case here...which makes it a little scarier.

S Yeah, I would think it was 4lo and that locks up the t-case. The system operates similar to the H2.

I am curious if it popped the ring gear totally or if it spun some teeth off. If it shattered the ring under those circumstances, that could be a problem. I could possibly see losing a tooth off a gear and it failing that way but it's so odd that it happened on 2 of the same vehicles at the same obstacle.

There may not be enough teeth on the ring and pinions.

[NEOCON1]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
Neo, do you remember what was going on when yours went down and how it felt/sounded initially?

the clicking noise we get sometimes when putting in park is all i heard , then my drive lines were spining and and nothing to wheels , i felt like it was bucking ? i can spin my tires all i want in mud and dirt back home against obstacles with no problems i think it was torque and traction that busted them , i still recommend smooth crawling on slick rock the performed great for 5 days before the golden steps http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

just talked with salt lake may have fixed in 2-3 days if parts are not hard to get. seem really great and they have a loaner for me too http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif so far hummer is standing up and taking care of this lil issue http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[dochummer]

Did you guys lose gear oil at all? Or was it all contained?

[ShaggyX]

There is some stabilitrack (or something like that) junk on the H3 that is suppose to reduce wheel spin or something I think. The light was still on while in 4lo...so I would imagine that meant it was still engaged. It might have over applied the brakes to regulate the wheel spin and caused excessive resistance. Dont know...talking out of my ass like usual.

[ShaggyX]

Originally posted by Alec W:
IMO the H3 front diff can’t handle its own power on a rig with 35s on steep slick rock double ledges and instead of the wheels spinning the gears broke.
I am too lazy to search...what is the size/spline setup of the diffs on an H3?

[Ipedog]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
just talked with salt lake may have fixed in 2-3 days if parts are not hard to get. seem really great and they have a loaner for me too http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif so far hummer is standing up and taking care of this lil issue http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It's good to know that Hummer is taking care of you on this. I wonder if this could be something that would cause GM to do a recall to upgrade the gears?

[oma]

Just got back home last night so here are a few more pictures from Hell's Revenge. There are some really good shots of the H3's. I got some really good color so I thought some of you may want to download these for yourselves.

[oma]

Another

[The Green Lantern]

I like that pic!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[oma]

another pic

[oma]

Neo going down the trail to get to Hell's Gate.

[oma]

Coming up Hell's Gate

[oma]

Bebe coming up Hell's Gate

[NEOCON1]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ipedog:
I wonder if this could be something that would cause GM to do a recall to upgrade the gears? No way, it will be way cheaper to warranty the few that get broken then do a recall. Most H3's, like H2's, will never go off-road, so will likely never have this problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

X's a whole bunch http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

only about 5 percent get used like this and of those five percent there arent too many as crazy as bebe and i . we know our limits now on slick rock . just part of the learning curve .

[oma]

Neo right after Hell's Gate. I love this shot!

[oma]

Shaggy - I could not beleive he drove that thing all over those rocks, witht he sticker still in the window!

[oma]

Another cool shot.

[oma]

Bebe in Squeeze play. It looked like she was just about on her side.

[The Green Lantern]

man, I love that shot of Neo...Pic of the Month!!!...gotta download it to my comp.

Oma is it possible to email me the full size of that pic?....thanks.

[NEOCON1]

Originally posted by dochummer:
Did you guys lose gear oil at all? Or was it all contained?

no fluid leaks in either of the 3's i saw bebes front diff with the cover off at moab 4x4 ring gear did not shatter only about a quarter to a third of teeth were gone i told her to make some earings out of the busted teeth http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[oma]

There was an FTP (file transfer) error. The detail is 'Upload to '/testdir/test.txt' failed. Detail: '552 Transfer aborted. Disk quota exceeded
''.

WTF is this??
But I still have more pics to load!!!!!!
I'll try again later.

[CO Hummer]

Man it sounds nasty when those teeth break off. But that is nothing compared to watching Neo's rear tires rattle around when he tried to engage. I've never seen anything like that.

[NEOCON1]

Originally posted by CO Hummer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sfox:
Just out of curiousity, what t-case mode was the H3 in before it grenaded?

S

4-low, I'm sure. Who would that obstacle in anything else? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

low and rear lockers on

[CslRkH2]

Front Locker

[oma]

I can send you the full sized picture. Send me your email and I'll get it to you.

[NEOCON1]

with a front locker we may of craweled right up ? or may have busted worse i have heard the front is too weak for a locker . CslRK what a great trip and great meeting you bro http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[NEOCON1]

What did you all do, pull the shafts and drive off the trail in 2WD?
just put in neutral with engines running so we had power steering and brakes the tow out was as gnarly as the rest of the trail http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif it was a seven hour tow over some serious sh1t http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NEOCON1:
no fluid leaks in either of the 3's i saw bebes front diff with the cover off at moab 4x4 ring gear did not shatter only about a quarter to a third of teeth were gone i told her to make some earings out of the busted teeth http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif What did you all do, pull the shafts and drive off the trail in 2WD? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What would be easier? Pulling the ring and chunk or pulling the front shaft and both half shafts? Wouldn't you want to pull the half shafts so the front wheels wouldn't spin the diff up front?

[DDWH]

Originally posted by oma:
Neo right after Hell's Gate. I love this shot!

That would make a nice poster!

[NEOCON1]

i was getting no power front or rear and in park was showing 5 mph on speedo maybe also thru the chain in the t-case . would that make speedo read weird when not moving ? and park wont hold truck either just rolls weither park or not . any ideas on this ?

[CO Hummer]

What was funny on the GS carnage day was that the tie rod breakages were sort of a side item. We were so busy towing/winching vehicles over obstacles that there was plenty of time to have Adam repair tierods off to the side. By the time we'd get the last dead vehicle over the obstacle, Adam would have a tierod in place and the H2 ready to go. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[NEOCON1]

hey fox not sure if tcase or shafts or diffs yet should hear from salt lake today and have more info tonight they are tearing it down now at the dealer .

[NEOCON1]

Originally posted by oma:
Neo right after Hell's Gate. I love this shot!

boy oma this is a awsome pic http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif thanks for getting it up

[NEOCON1]

Originally posted by sfox:
The shuddering you were talking about earlier USUALLY indicates a t-case is gone...did anyone notice if the driveshafts would still spin?

S

pretty sure some said front shaft still spinning but nothing to the wheels .

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by sfox:
..did anyone notice if the driveshafts would still spin?


Yep, they were spinning. The front wheels did nothing and the back wheels didn't rotate, but shook violently.

[Kiraco]

Originally posted by ShaggyX:
There is some stabilitrack (or something like that) junk on the H3 that is suppose to reduce wheel spin or something I think. The light was still on while in 4lo...so I would imagine that meant it was still engaged. It might have over applied the brakes to regulate the wheel spin and caused excessive resistance. Dont know...talking out of my ass like usual.

Was it an actual light or just the display read out???

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by sfox:
Both diffs blew? Or the front diff and a rear axleshaft?

S maybe not if he had the rear locked up.

I've snapped an axle before and there is no shaking or jerking once it's snapped.

Maybe it blew a spider in the rear diff.

[PARAGON]

THEORY:

assuming it's not the t-case because it sounds like alan is saying power was going front and back.

while on the obstacle the front could have spun the teeth like Bebe did and then all of the torque is now applied to the rear, since the front is free-wheeling. In an instant it could have blown the rear as all of that pressure transfer totally to the rear wheels with it still trying to make the climb.

[MarineHawk]

Originally posted by CO Hummer:
What was funny on the GS carnage day was that the tie rod breakages were sort of a side item. We were so busy towing/winching vehicles over obstacles that there was plenty of time to have Adam repair tierods off to the side. By the time we'd get the last dead vehicle over the obstacle, Adam would have a tierod in place and the H2 ready to go. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Were these all stock tie rods? If so, sounds like the Fabtech solution should be mandatory prior to entering Moab.

[ShaggyX]

Seth...From what I could tell Neo had 0 power to any wheels after the breakage occured. There was a loud pop and shaking of at least 3 of his wheels and then nothing. The rear driveshaft definately kept spinning, but I never checked the front personally.

Marine...All stock tie rods, but I think they were flukes. There was another contributing factor in their somewhere. Think maybe an overly soft suspension caused too much wheel hop.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by sfox:
Power would have been transfered to the front when the front blew....but only if they were in 4hi not 4lo locked...no power transfer would have occurred. The weight of the vehicle would have been mostly on the rear to begin with.....were you under your own power to get off of the obstacle or did ya'll simply strap forward as soon as the breakage occurred?

S I'm not sure I follow what you are saying. If you are in 4lo there is a 50/50 split at the t-case. If you drop one of the driveshafts ALL of the power is then being applied to the other end. You are in essence droping a driveshaft in this case therefore all of the engine torque would be applied to the functioning output shaft.

[PARAGON]

So, it sounds like it spun the teeth on the rear as well.

Anyone know what the front/rear ring/pinion is for the H3?

[GeneseeMtn]

For broken drive line in either the front or rear, you can remove the drive shaft and plug the holes in the transfer case and differential (a wad of duct tape works, or you can get some machined out of plastic, rubber, etc), and drive in either high or low LOCK.

The same trick works with half-shafts on the H1 by removing it & plugging the heared hub & differential output and driving in LOCK.

[oma]

We really should start a thread about recovery - if this happens, you need to do this. Like when you break something that you don't have a spare part for - what do you have left (2WD, 3WD, brakes, etc)? what gear should you be in (can you leave it in low/high lock, D, or N)? Are there things you need to bring along for patches if you do remove anything to get you off the trail? Also just a good trouble shooting list of things to help isolate the problems, like both front or rear wheels spin, only one wheel spins, no wheels spin, and what might be the problem.

[GeneseeMtn]

Originally posted by Kiraco:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ShaggyX:
There is some stabilitrack (or something like that) junk on the H3 that is suppose to reduce wheel spin or something I think. The light was still on while in 4lo...so I would imagine that meant it was still engaged. It might have over applied the brakes to regulate the wheel spin and caused excessive resistance. Dont know...talking out of my ass like usual.

QUOTE]


When a traction control system gives you trouble, you can always pull the fuse.

[GeneseeMtn]

Originally posted by oma:
We really should start a thread about recovery - if this happens, you need to do this. Like when you break something that you don't have a spare part for - what do you have left (2WD, 3WD, brakes, etc)? what gear should you be in (can you leave it in low/high lock, D, or N)? Are there things you need to bring along for patches if you do remove anything to get you off the trail? Also just a good trouble shooting list of things to help isolate the problems, like both front or rear wheels spin, only one wheel spins, no wheels spin, and what might be the problem.

Lisa - There are some field repair kits that have all the instructions, plugs, repair lines, etc... Problem is, you only need them once you've broken something & they're back at home in the tool box.

[Kiraco]

Originally posted by GeneseeMtn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kiraco:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ShaggyX:
There is some stabilitrack (or something like that) junk on the H3 that is suppose to reduce wheel spin or something I think. The light was still on while in 4lo...so I would imagine that meant it was still engaged. It might have over applied the brakes to regulate the wheel spin and caused excessive resistance. Dont know...talking out of my ass like usual.

QUOTE]


When a traction control system gives you trouble, you can always pull the fuse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When I put mine in 4lo it's pretty common to see it come accross the display. It tells you that it is off.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by sfox:
With the truck in 4lo with the rear locked, the traction control system can ONLY transfer power between the two front wheels, no more front to rear transfer, no more passenger to driver rear tire transfer..I imagine the traction control system gets a bit pissy about this..http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S I wonder if it knows or if it just "finds out" by trial and error. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[NEOCON1]

Originally posted by ShaggyX:
Seth...From what I could tell Neo had 0 power to any wheels after the breakage occured. There was a loud pop and shaking of at least 3 of his wheels and then nothing. The rear driveshaft definately kept spinning, but I never checked the front personally.

Marine...All stock tie rods, but I think they were flukes. There was another contributing factor in their somewhere. Think maybe an overly soft suspension caused too much wheel hop.

could it be excess bling chrome is heavy http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif just kidding Rox you know i love you after that night we spent together on the trail http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif LMAO

[MarineHawk]

Originally posted by ShaggyX:
Marine...All stock tie rods, but I think they were flukes. There was another contributing factor in their somewhere. Think maybe an overly soft suspension caused too much wheel hop.

Were the shocks worn out or was something else making the suspension too soft, if you know?
Though flukes, do you think the same anomalies would have resulted in breaking the FT rods had they been installed?

[Tah2oe]

How about this picture of CO Hummer going down at Hell's Gate?

http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2455.jpg

[MarineHawk]

Originally posted by sfox:
With the truck in 4lo with the rear locked, the traction control system can ONLY transfer power between the two front wheels, no more front to rear transfer, no more passenger to driver rear tire transfer..I imagine the traction control system gets a bit pissy about this..http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S

I heard that, in one instance, the DIC got so mad that it diverted exhaust into the cab, killed the owner, unlocked the diffs, and drove off on its own.

[Mrs.ssippi]

Okay not to be a bitch, no I'm a bitch...I thought this was about Pics and not so much about stuff I don't understand. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Let's see more pics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by MarineHawk:
Were the shocks worn out or was something else making the suspension too soft, if you know?
Though flukes, do you think the same anomalies would have resulted in breaking the FT rods had they been installed?

Rox said she just had new Rod Hall shocks installed before the trip. She mentioned to me before we even did the trail that the she thought the shocks were way too soft. That might have been the problem with the first two breakages. But on the third it bent just as she was starting up a ledge where she wasn't hopping at all.

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by Tah2oe:
How about this picture of CO Hummer going down at Hell's Gate?

LMAO Lonnie! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BTW - We should rename you "TahTOW".

[Tah2oe]

Here are a couple of the obstacle on Metal Masher.

http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2368.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2369.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2370.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2371.jpg

[Tah2oe]

Rear view mirror shot.

http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2385.jpg

[Tah2oe]

Hot tub shots.

http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2507.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2509.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2510.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2515.jpg

[Tah2oe]

Peep and Hummer carnage. This is after we put the brush fire out.

http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2597.jpg

[Fubar]

With space on the servers becoming an issue here at H2source.com I've placed the images I took while in Moab, on one of my websites.

Moab Pictures (http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/index.htm)

It is a Flash slide show that will play once you've clicked on the fifth button from the left. (the play or right arrow, located in the lower right corner of the window.)

[Tah2oe]

Shaggy and his date he brought on the trip.

http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2630.jpg

[Tah2oe]

Side trip to newspaper rock in Canyonlands with pectroglyphs on it.

http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2676.jpg

[DDWH]

Originally posted by Fubar:
With space on the servers becoming an issue here at H2source.com I've placed the images I took while in Moab, on one of my websites.

Moab Pictures (http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/index.htm)

It is a Flash slide show that will play once you've clicked on the fifth button from the left. (the play or right arrow, located in the lower right corner of the window.)

Very cool Fubar http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif thanks for sharing!

[westhillsat]

Thanks Fubar

Great Pictures!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[deicustoms1]

Great Pics. I find it funny though how we have all this talk about broken H3s, yet nobody mentions the H2 you lost over the cliff. A spy got these for me...

http://img282.imageshack.us/img282/3552/moab17ro.gif

http://img282.imageshack.us/img282/2175/moab27uu.gif

http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/4815/moab31rd.gif

[NewHummerGuy]

were those from viva la bam?? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifOriginally posted by dei???????:
Great Pics. I find it funny though how we have all this talk about broken H3s, yet nobody mentions the H2 you lost over the cliff. A spy got these for me...

http://img282.imageshack.us/img282/3552/moab17ro.gif

http://img282.imageshack.us/img282/2175/moab27uu.gif

http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/4815/moab31rd.gif

[westhillsat]

.http://x402.putfile.com/4/11315544357.jpg (Raarr

[westhillsat]

Seven Mile Rim

http://x402.putfile.com/4/11316235323.jpg (H2's

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by westhillsat:
.http://x402.putfile.com/4/11315544357.jpg (Raarr Is that someone taking a picture standing back down below?

If so, do we have copy of that picture. Was CP stopped and on the brakes right here?

[Tah2oe]

Look at the aftermath of Golden Spike.



http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2672.jpg

[Tah2oe]

Hell's Gate:

http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2468.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2506.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2438.jpg

[PackerFever]

No stabilitrak on the five speeds. Anyone think that would ahve made a difference?

Also do you think it was a combination of the Locker and Stabtrak? I don't have either since it is the lux Five speed but I am curious to know. Also, is it hard to add the Rear Locker if you don't have it already?

[Fubar]

4 in two days... oh my... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[CslRkH2]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
with a front locker we may of craweled right up ? or may have busted worse i have heard the front is too weak for a locker . CslRK what a great trip and great meeting you bro http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Great meeting you too Neo!

Did you watch the Bronco and that pickup idle up the stairs? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I think a front locker would have helped us all on that one, some clearance would have helped too of course.

[H2Finally]

MORE PICTURES!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif DO NOW!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Neo, were you able to proceed forward from your position per Hell's Gate pic above? For the H2s, that stance would indicate too-low an approach (winching imminent).

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by H2Finally:
MORE PICTURES!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif DO NOW!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Neo, were you able to proceed forward from your position per Hell's Gate pic above? For the H2s, that stance would indicate too-low an approach (winching imminent). I'm not real sure, but I don't think that is the same place. I think where he is in that pic is just above that spot. I think right at or just below the pic of Alan is about where it is and Neo's rear tire is about where Alan's front tire is..... I think.

[Fubar]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[DennisAJC]

Makes my palms sweat just thinking about it. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Can't wait!

[Tah2oe]

Where is Ken going to now?

http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2527.jpg

[Fubar]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/images/IMG_6338x.jpg

[Fubar]

.
http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/images/IMG_6343x.jpg

[Fubar]

..
http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/images/IMG_6358x.jpg

[Fubar]

.,
http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/images/IMG_6380x.jpg

[Fubar]

,.

http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/images/IMG_6446x.jpg

[Fubar]

....
http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/images/IMG_6459x.jpg

[Fubar]

.-

http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/images/IMG_6513x.jpg

[dochummer]

Originally posted by Alec W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tah2oe:
Look at the
3 in a day must be the forum record http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Too bad you didn't have video...it would definately top the other one that's circling the web... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Fubar]

http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/images/IMG_6534x.jpg

[Fubar]

http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/images/IMG_6553x.jpg

[dochummer]

Fubar, with that sincity logo on those pics....where are the girls?!?!?

[Fubar]

here in Vegas waiting for youhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Fubar]

http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/images/IMG_6635x.jpg

[Fubar]

http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/images/IMG_6642x.jpg

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by Fubar:
,.

http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/images/IMG_6446x.jpg

http://www.atkinsweb.com/shared/moab2006/40_GS_CstlLedge.JPG

http://www.atkinsweb.com/shared/moab2006/24_SB_Ken.JPG

http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/images/IMG_6459x.jpg How come there are so many pictures of Ken dancing? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Fubar]

http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/images/IMG_6627x.jpg

[Fubar]

why so many pictures of Ken dancing? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/QUOTE]

Because he was out doing a great job of spoting for everyone.

[PackerFever]

those last few of BeBe and Neo really show that sharp rear angle.....but why do we all have bent plates?

[Fubar]

http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/images/IMG_0379x.jpg

[Fubar]

I'm not sure about BeBe's since it appears to be slightly bent before she entered the pictured obstacle but Neo bent his dropping into the crack.
(that sounds funny, but you know what I mean)http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
BeBe's was further bent after completing the obstacle.


Originally posted by PackerFever:
those last few of BeBe and Neo really show that sharp rear angle.....but why do we all have bent plates?

[ROX]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ShaggyX:
Seth...From what I could tell Neo had 0 power to any wheels after the breakage occured. There was a loud pop and shaking of at least 3 of his wheels and then nothing. The rear driveshaft definately kept spinning, but I never checked the front personally.

Marine...All stock tie rods, but I think they were flukes. There was another contributing factor in their somewhere. Think maybe an overly soft suspension caused too much wheel hop.

could it be excess bling chrome is heavy http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif just kidding Rox you know i love you after that night we spent together on the trail http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif LMAO </div></BLOCKQUOTE>NEO! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

I'll essplain about the tie rods later. It's turning into quite a story. I think I know why they were bending now. I need to get home and have Trent take another look at them first.

[NEOCON1]

talked to dealer its the front and rear diffs they think the t-case is ok but wont know for sure until later they are shooting for having it fixed by wed pm. so can catch a ride with Rox to salt lake on wed http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif. by then hopefully it will be fixed still not sure how quick they can get parts .

[HummBebe]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Carnage.jpg

Things that make you go bzzzzzzzzz http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[PackerFever]

Ouch!!!!

Looks like 7 teeth gone and one cracked making it at least 8. Can you say warranty?

[HummBebe]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/TittybitNipply.jpg

Watching the Sun go down tewnite, it was getting a bit nippy http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[KenP]

Originally posted by CO Hummer:
You are right about the H3s doing well tho. They walked everything with ease all week. But something needs to be done to strenghten the drivetrain. I know I"m late to this conversation today, but the drive and all....

I was really digging the 3's until that happened. The 2's weak link is the tie rod and easily fixed on the trail. But if the 3's weak point is the drivetrain, then that's a major problem GM must address. That'll also keep us from buying one for wheeling. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

That's too bad, because the 3's crawl like crazy. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[KenP]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
just talked with salt lake may have fixed in 2-3 days if parts are not hard to get. seem really great and they have a loaner for me too http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif so far hummer is standing up and taking care of this lil issue http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Glad to hear that.

Seth, Bebe shredded the teeth off her ring gear.

[KenP]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by westhillsat:
.http://x402.putfile.com/4/11315544357.jpg (Raarr Is that someone taking a picture standing back down below?

If so, do we have copy of that picture. Was CP stopped and on the brakes right here? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>She was stopped at this point. You like those tires pointing all over, don't you? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Dave even stopped her twice on Escalator because he was freaking out over the tires going wherever they wanted.

[KenP]

Originally posted by H2Finally:
MORE PICTURES!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif DO NOW!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Neo, were you able to proceed forward from your position per Hell's Gate pic above? For the H2s, that stance would indicate too-low an approach (winching imminent). There were some mid-obstacle adjustments made to Neo's line. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[PackerFever]

Originally posted by CO Hummer:
You are right about the H3s doing well tho. They walked everything with ease all week.......

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
I was really digging the 3's until...... ........That's too bad, because the 3's crawl like crazy. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was pretty impressed even though I got out on an easier trail. I had an old toyota pu years ago that could climb well and then I had a few cherokees that did pretty well. Nothing like the climbing in my 5 speed H3 in low...I think I am surprised it didn't snub a few times. I mean it kept climbing and descending even without and pressure on the gas...the descents were smooth with foot completely off everything at times.....creeper gear...slow is good.

I cannot help bu admit I was very impressed with the H2 this week as well. I can say I'll never go back to a lesser vehicle.

[KenP]

Originally posted by Fubar:

Because he was out doing a great job of spoting for everyone. Thanks Fubar. Great pic, BTW!!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[PackerFever]

http://www.buybreckenridge.com/images/DSCN6877M.JPG
Nice scene

[Fubar]

thanks, I had a great time for the short period of time I was therehttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ken Thankshttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Westhillsat, Thankshttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Originally posted by DDWH:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fubar:
With space on the servers becoming an issue here at H2source.com I've placed the images I took while in Moab, on one of my websites.

Moab Pictures (http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/index.htm)

It is a Flash slide show that will play once you've clicked on the fifth button from the left. (the play or right arrow, located in the lower right corner of the window.)

Very cool Fubar http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif thanks for sharing! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[KenP]

Originally posted by PhilD:
Pulling the front drive shaft and two half shafts would have allowed you to continue in 2WD without doing any further damage to the front diff. Then you would have only need a strap over the obstacles.

If you're not sure what needs to be pulled off though, towing is definitely the best option.

Glad everyone made it off in one piece. That option wasn't even discussed by any of us. We didn't think about it, but that would have been the way to go. You can bet we'll remember that if there's another catastrophic failure on the trail.

As the day turned to night, around 7pm, and everyone realized we weren't getting off the trail for several more hours, tensions became thick. We all were edgy, tired, hungry, and running low and water.

I apologize to Fubar for being smart with him at one point.

Around 9pm, it seemed we were all resigned to the fact we weren't grilling out again and just took everything in stride.

The night stuff was really fun. Seeing the lights in the distance of so many Hummers was really cool and we all learned alot about recovery.

All in, all out. No one, and nothing left behind. Great job, Gang. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by KenP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by westhillsat:
.http://x402.putfile.com/4/11315544357.jpg (Raarr Is that someone taking a picture standing back down below?

If so, do we have copy of that picture. Was CP stopped and on the brakes right here? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>She was stopped at this point. You like those tires pointing all over, don't you? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Dave even stopped her twice on Escalator because he was freaking out over the tires going wherever they wanted. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm just trying to come up with a solution to that so that it's not so severe. One can't really say how much a role that had in the CV damage. Obviously when power is applied the tires are attempting to pull closer together and the tie rods are bending the centerlink like a straw.

It seems maybe the centerlink should need to be less flexible so that it doesn't get this severe.

Also, it would be interesting to try to see if the cognitos have a small effect on it. Since they limit the rotation on the centerlink they might control some of that flex.

Yeah, that bothers me and I think if, from an engineering standpoint, you could move the tie rods to the rear of the steering knuckles or do something to address this issue, it would go a long way to strengthening the IFS for off road.

[KenP]

Originally posted by Alec W:
At one point Adam was fixing a tie-rod on the H2 while at the same time it was being used to winch Neo. That was pretty funny. The winch was on the rear, and Adam was under the front. You should have heard him squeal like a little girl when the truck lurched at one point!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Legal Notice: That's not recommended and shouldn't be done.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by KenP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
At one point Adam was fixing a tie-rod on the H2 while at the same time it was being used to winch Neo. That was pretty funny. The winch was on the rear, and Adam was under the front. You should have heard him squeal like a little girl when the truck lurched at one point!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Legal Notice: That's not recommended and shouldn't be done. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>did he keep up with it and stay working?

[CslRkH2]

What was the deal with the over-heating winch(es)? I didn't hear that whole story when we were on the trail.

[KenP]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
I'm just trying to come up with a solution to that so that it's not so severe. One can't really say how much a role that had in the CV damage. Obviously when power is applied the tires are attempting to pull closer together and the tie rods are bending the centerlink like a straw.

It seems maybe the centerlink should need to be less flexible so that it doesn't get this severe.

Also, it would be interesting to try to see if the cognitos have a small effect on it. Since they limit the rotation on the centerlink they might control some of that flex.

Yeah, that bothers me and I think if, from an engineering standpoint, you could move the tie rods to the rear of the steering knuckles or do something to address this issue, it would go a long way to strengthening the IFS for off road. I agree, something should be done. But with that said, it's important to note the tires we're using are much wider than others on the trail. Phil said his walked all over like that when in 4low, but not in 4hi.

Cognitos may be on our list, but I'm waiting for Phil's review. They certainly can't hurt.

BTW, you can call me. I'll be on the road all day tomorrow, too. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[KenP]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
At one point Adam was fixing a tie-rod on the H2 while at the same time it was being used to winch Neo. That was pretty funny. The winch was on the rear, and Adam was under the front. You should have heard him squeal like a little girl when the truck lurched at one point!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Legal Notice: That's not recommended and shouldn't be done. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>did he keep up with it and stay working? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Heck yeah he did! He chased that truck down like a dog in heat. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[h2co-pilot]

Yeah, well it would sure be nice to run an obstacle without getting the ole fist in the air and a colaboration of on lookers and spotters whispering and looking at the front of the truck like you just ran over the Welch's grape juice girl.http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[KenP]

Originally posted by CslRkH2:
What was the deal with the over-heating winch(es)? I didn't hear that whole story when we were on the trail. That winch was only used once and should be covered under warranty byu Warn.

[ShaggyX]

Originally posted by h2co-pilot:
Yeah, well it would sure be nice to run an obstacle without getting the ole fist in the air and a colaboration of on lookers and spotters whispering and looking at the front of the truck like you just ran over the Welch's grape juice girl.http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif LMFAO. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[KenP]

Originally posted by h2co-pilot:
Yeah, well it would sure be nice to run an obstacle without getting the ole fist in the air and a colaboration of on lookers and spotters whispering and looking at the front of the truck like you just ran over the Welch's grape juice girl.http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif BWUHAHAHAHahahahah http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Mrs.ssippi]

what? You ran over the Welch's Grape Juice Girl? I missed the pictures. The site must have been having problems with the pics at that point. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[dochummer]

Come-on! More pics! The the Grape juice girl squirt when you ran over her?!?

So, I take it having the warn winch hitch mounted came in mighty handy that day....?

[KenP]

Yes, it did. The hitch mount wasn't necessary, but was nice to have.

[dochummer]

Good, I'm still hoping to get the drty winch.... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[GeneseeMtn]

Originally posted by HummBebe:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/Carnage.jpg

Things that make you go bzzzzzzzzz http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

It will be interesting to see how GM treats off-road drive line failure under warranty.

AM General is usually pretty good because after all...that's what Hummers are for in the first place. The fact that GM factory reps and HCI bring H3's though the same trails should make a warranty claim a little easier in that they can't claim "abuse" of the vehicle caused the failure.

[PARAGON]

It can get dangerous out there in Moab

http://www.vantronics.com/Eagle1.jpg

[KenP]

All indications are that these repairs and Neo's tow to Salt Lake are going to be fully covered. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Good for GM.

[PackerFever]

GM Report; Category....Impact Damage.....solution...CYA and replace it so she doesn't bad mouth us on that thar internet thingy.

[MarineHawk]

Originally posted by KenP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CO Hummer:
You are right about the H3s doing well tho. They walked everything with ease all week. But something needs to be done to strenghten the drivetrain. I know I"m late to this conversation today, but the drive and all....

I was really digging the 3's until that happened. The 2's weak link is the tie rod and easily fixed on the trail. But if the 3's weak point is the drivetrain, then that's a major problem GM must address. That'll also keep us from buying one for wheeling. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
That's too bad, because the 3's crawl like crazy. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is there a reasonable fix for the drivetrain issue? What caused the diff teeth to break? Can it be fixed with just stronger diffs?
I agree that "2's weak link is the tie rod and easily fixed on the trail," but I'd go one step further and say that the weak link can be preventatively repaired for about $300 parts and labor with the FT rods, and it would be much rarer to have them fail (although you or CP – can’t recall who - managed to be the first and only person on the planet to bend one). To me, doing serious wheeling in an H2 with stock tie rods is like taking out an expensive boat when you know you have a repairable hole in the hull.

[KenP]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
It can get dangerous out there in Moab

http://www.vantronics.com/Eagle1.jpg LMFAO X10 gagillion!!!!!

[MarineHawk]

Originally posted by KenP:
Cognitos may be on our list, but I'm waiting for Phil's review. They certainly can't hurt.

... I'll be on the road all day tomorrow, too. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

FWIW, I like the way my truck handles with the Cognitos. Seems firmer. But I don't have a lift like you and Phil - so it might work differently on mine. I also have no way to know if I'm preventing any wear. But it does make me "feel" like I'm saving my pitman and idler arms.

Drive safely.

[dochummer]

Originally posted by MarineHawk:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CO Hummer:
You are right about the H3s doing well tho. They walked everything with ease all week. But something needs to be done to strenghten the drivetrain. I know I"m late to this conversation today, but the drive and all....

I was really digging the 3's until that happened. The 2's weak link is the tie rod and easily fixed on the trail. But if the 3's weak point is the drivetrain, then that's a major problem GM must address. That'll also keep us from buying one for wheeling. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
That's too bad, because the 3's crawl like crazy. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is there a reasonable fix for the drivetrain issue? What caused the diff teeth to break? Can it be fixed with just stronger diffs?
I agree that "2's weak link is the tie rod and easily fixed on the trail," but I'd go one step further and say that the weak link can be preventatively repaired for about $300 parts and labor with the FT rods, and it would be much rarer to have them fail (although you or CP – can’t recall who - managed to be the first and only person on the planet to bend one). To me, doing serious wheeling in an H2 with stock tie rods is like taking out an expensive boat when you know you have a repairable hole in the hull. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But, with the FT tierods...does that put the CV more at risk?

[Fubar]

LOLhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif too funny

[Fubar]

Ken, It's all good. My being Hypoglycemic and having very little to eat by hour 8-10-12-14 I was probably getting on everyones nerveshttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif It should be me apologizing to everyone for putting up with me.

It was amazing to see everyone pitch in, help where they could and work toward getting everyone one off the trail and back to home base safe.

I think everyone learned something that day.


Originally posted by KenP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhilD:
Pulling the front drive shaft and two half shafts would have allowed you to continue in 2WD without doing any further damage to the front diff. Then you would have only need a strap over the obstacles.

If you're not sure what needs to be pulled off though, towing is definitely the best option.

Glad everyone made it off in one piece. That option wasn't even discussed by any of us. We didn't think about it, but that would have been the way to go. You can bet we'll remember that if there's another catastrophic failure on the trail.

As the day turned to night, around 7pm, and everyone realized we weren't getting off the trail for several more hours, tensions became thick. We all were edgy, tired, hungry, and running low and water.

I apologize to Fubar for being smart with him at one point.

Around 9pm, it seemed we were all resigned to the fact we weren't grilling out again and just took everything in stride.

The night stuff was really fun. Seeing the lights in the distance of so many Hummers was really cool and we all learned alot about recovery.

All in, all out. No one, and nothing left behind. Great job, Gang. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[H2Finally]

Originally posted by Fubar:
.
http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/images/IMG_6343x.jpg Fubar, whose sunset (maroon?) H2 is that? Digging the wheels and the custom front brush guard/wing! Any pic of it from the front?

[PackerFever]

Kick ass burnt orange with a cool bumper and rack system built by ...neil????

[Fubar]

Yes, the bumper is being offered by Neil.

Here is the best front shot I have. I'm sure Neil could provide you with better product shots.

http://sincityh2.com/html/moab_4_06/images/winchbumper.jpg

[dochummer]

who's neil? Is he the H2o guy?

[johndjmix1]

Great, while you guys were playin out in Moab, i was up by estas park squeezing, no scratching my H2 through a trail made for an ATV that some bonehead in a jeep went down and needed someone to pull him out.

Looks like fun, but i know i would definatly pussy out on some of that **** with the 300 foot ledges. Any body damage you guys?

--John

[Fubar]

Quote: who's neil? Is he the H2o guy?
__________________________________________________
yes

[dochummer]

Ah ha! Thanks.

[Tah2oe]

Alec, it looks like your daughter took some really good pictures. Tell her she did a good job.

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by CslRkH2:
What was the deal with the over-heating winch(es)? I didn't hear that whole story when we were on the trail.

I don't think any of the winches overheated. I thought my thermometric one did for moment, but the controller had just slipped out of place. Alec's winch acted up randomly and would stop working. But I don't think it was due to overheating.

[Tah2oe]

Adam doing the funky chicken:

http://homepage.mac.com/lonnierobinson/.Pictures/Moab/IMG_2365.jpg

[ree]

Originally posted by CO Hummer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CslRkH2:
What was the deal with the over-heating winch(es)? I didn't hear that whole story when we were on the trail.

I don't think any of the winches overheated. I thought my thermometric one did for moment, but the controller had just slipped out of place. Alec's winch acted up randomly and would stop working. But I don't think it was due to overheating. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So were you guys limited by the winch duty cycles on your electric winches, i.e. did you ever have to sit and wait for cool down? Or was this a non-issue?

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by ree:
So were you guys limited by the winch duty cycles on your electric winches, i.e. did you ever have to sit and wait for cool down? Or was this a non-issue?

No, we kept leap-frogging vehicles with winches. We used three vehicles for winching. We started with mine, then Alec's, then Rox's, etc. So the winches has plenty of time to cool down. Rox and I use the 9500Ti which has a built-in shut off if overheating occurs. Neither of us reached that threshold.

[Fubar]

Wow, I guess you guys like Moab Pictures. Yesterday the 24th I made available to you all the Moab Pictures I took. And boy did the members/visitors of this site enjoy.


Daily Statistics for April 2006
Day Hits Files

23 55 46
24 11314 10068

Thanks. This should serve as an example for anyone wanting to adverstise on H2source.com that this site gets seen by a lot of people.

[CO Hummer]

Fub, Get 'em loaded to our FTP site! Do Now! You take great pics.

[Fubar]

thankshttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
In case I didn't say it on the trail, You did a great job of getting everyone threw the day.

[h2co-pilot]

Originally posted by dochummer:
But, with the FT tierods...does that put the CV more at risk?

Since the factory tie rods are a weak point, replacing them will move it somewhere else IMO.

And yeah, I'm pretty sure it was me that bent the HD tie rod. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[ShaggyX]

Originally posted by CO Hummer:
Fub, Get 'em loaded to our FTP site! Do Now! You take great pics. Does that mean that the Moab thread I left has the FTP server Info? Oops. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Fubar]

exactly. The breakage will get moved up the drive train to something not so easy to fix or replace.

[MarineHawk]

Originally posted by Fubar:
exactly. The breakage will get moved up the drive train to something not so easy to fix or replace.

Now I'm going to have to hacksaw some weak points in my FT rods. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[NEOCON1]

great pix fubar , cant wait to get home and see mine on something bigger than a 3 inch monitor LOL http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

still chillin in Moab http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[dochummer]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif CP is all into that abuse thing.... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Fubar]

no it's a choice you've made in hopes of never having a trail issue and hopefully it will pay off for you and you'll never suffer breakage upstream from your new beefier t-rodshttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Pratice BTM, live BTM and you'll reduce the chances of anything going wrong even further.

[Fubar]

Neo, There's a 19 inch maybe it's only 17 inch but either way there is a larger monitor in the lounge area of the Gonzo. Thanks, you've taken some great stuff as well.

[h2co-pilot]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fubar:
exactly. The breakage will get moved up the drive train to something not so easy to fix or replace. Not true. The stock rods are not designed to break, they do beacuse they are weak. Stronger tie rods do not effect the drivetrain or put it any more risk. They simply strengthen a weak point.

Now, if you abuse your vehicle, then expect things to break, but the whole notion that the stock tie rods are some sort of pressure valve is false.

Just because you have stronger tie rods, it does not mean that something else will break instead. It simply means that you won't break a weak point as easily. However, if you force the steering when you are bound, etc, sure the tie rod may not break and something further along may, (that would be the center link, Pitman/idler arms or steering box, not the driveshafts), but that is the drivers choice, you don't force IFS period.

You break driveshafts or CV's from too much driveline stress, often accompanied by severe angles, you do not break driveshafts or CV's by simply having HD tie rods.

I've blown two CV's, many Pitman/idler arms, and a steering box, all because of how I drove, not because I had HD tie rods. I've never broke a tie rod, stock or HD. Steering stress and driveline stress are related with IFS, but the concept of HD tie rods breaking the driveline is just plain wrong.

If you allow an IFS front end to bounce or force the steering, you will break something. The HD tie rods remove one link, it doesn't mean you can abuse the vehicle until something else breaks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not saying that they are not good to have, because they have really saved alot I'm sure.

But.... if you are driving it harshly or whatever and that tie rod will not brake- something would have to give in. If not the tie rod something else along the line will give- it is just physics.

[Fubar]

Phill, I am going to have to disagree with you and I guess it just depends on who you talk to. The Mech's that I've spoken to at various Hummer dealerships have all, every one of them said that the tie rods on the H2 have been designed to be the week link and designed to fail to prevent upstream damage of more critical parts. Thats not saying that if one goes to beffier t-rods that something IS or WILL break just that there is a greater possibility. That said opinions are like A-holes everyone has one so I will defer to your greater knowledge and experience. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by PhilD:
The stock rods are not designed to break, they do beacuse they are weak. Stronger tie rods do not effect the drivetrain or put it any more risk. They simply strengthen a weak point.

Thanks for the info Phil. I've been considering the upgrade to the Fabtech's. But I'm at 3.5 years without a break of my original tie rods. I'm almost sentimental about them - no breaks in 6 Moab trips. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[dochummer]

So, if you've upgraded to larger tires and/or a lift...then the tie-rods should definately be upgraded bcs the stress to the whole system is increased...is that right?

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by dochummer:
So, if you've upgraded to larger tires and/or a lift...then the tie-rods should definately be upgraded bcs the stress to the whole system is increased...is that right?

That's what I've been thinking. I'm ready for some new tires and will probably go with 37s. It seems to make sense to upgrade the TRs at this point.

[DRTYFN]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CO Hummer:
Thanks for the info Phil. I've been considering the upgrade to the Fabtech's. But I'm at 3.5 years without a break of my original tie rods. I'm almost sentimental about them - no breaks in 6 Moab trips. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif If it ain't broke... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
... then you've been a lucky SOB.
The wise & prudent thing to do would be to immediately upgrade to the Fabtech HD tie rods. I think of all of the things I've done with my H2 and shudder thinking about all of the places I could have been stranded with a gimpy stock tie rod bent or snapped.

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by DRTYFN:
... then you've been a lucky SOB.
The wise & prudent thing to do would be to immediately upgrade to the Fabtech HD tie rods. I think of all of the things I've done with my H2 and shudder thinking about all of the places I could have been stranded with a gimpy stock tie rod bent or snapped.

I watched Adam change out three of them this week. He does it in like 15 minutes. I always carry a spare, so I'm not that worried about getting stranded since it's a fairly easy change out.

...that said, I am going to get the HD in the near future.

[Fubar]

what critical parts? Anything up stream from an easily replaced tie rod. Just about everyone has spare tie rods hell we went threw 3 in under 4hrs on one truck. It's a 10 minute job to replace them. That can't be said for a broken t-case, stearing box, axel, or any other part up stream from the tie rods. I know you sell HD tie rods and sorry if this has hit a little close to home for you but you can't possibly argue the fact that it is easier to replace a tie rod than the other components further up the line from it. So regardless if it is designed to break or breaks because of too much stress, bad driving or whatever the fact that it breaks or fails proably protects the rest of the drive line.

[Tah2oe]

Originally posted by CO Hummer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DRTYFN:
... then you've been a lucky SOB.
The wise & prudent thing to do would be to immediately upgrade to the Fabtech HD tie rods. I think of all of the things I've done with my H2 and shudder thinking about all of the places I could have been stranded with a gimpy stock tie rod bent or snapped.

I watched Adam change out three of them this week. He does it in like 15 minutes. I always carry a spare, so I'm not that worried about getting stranded since it's a fairly easy change out.

...that said, I am going to get the HD in the near future. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea and when I go wheeling in the future I am always going to take Adam with me. The tie rod he changed in the sand storm had to be the worst.

[ShaggyX]

Originally posted by PhilD:
WTF How do you break a t-case or driveshaft because of a HD tie rod?
Have you seen Fubar drive? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[MarineHawk]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2co-pilot:
But.... if you are driving it harshly or whatever and that tie rod will not brake- something would have to give in. If not the tie rod something else along the line will give- it is just physics. Why would something else have to break? The center link is way stronger than the stock tie rods, and the Pitman/idler arms and steering box can handle much more abuse than the stock tie rods can. The stock tie rods are a weak point.

Most people will never break the stock ones, but HD ones simply fix a weak point.

Now if you abuse your truck, you will break something else, but that goes with the territory.

To say that having weak tie rods is a good thing, because it will stop you breaking something else is just plain messed up http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whew! I'm glad this just came in. I had drawn the hacksaw, and was about to cut weak points back into my FT rods. I'll put it away for now.

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by Tah2oe:
The tie rod he changed in the sand storm had to be the worst.

Actually, I think when he had to change it on Golden Spike while the engine was running (for the simultaneous rear winching activity) and while the vehicle was slipping was the worst. "Come on, guys http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif" http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But you're right... The change-out on Metal Masher doesn't look like much fun:

http://www.atkinsweb.com/shared/moab2006/46_MetaMash_Tierod.JPG

[Fubar]

well let see Phill what transfer all the stress and torque from the wheels. What is the first component in line to transfer the load? Tie rods, right? So it makes sense that if they don't fail under extreme stress, like wheel spin then said wheel suddenly stopping as it connects with the ground that something else not as easily replaced is going to fail. Yes? No? Hell I give up, you win, I'll be ordering some Fabtech Tie rods shortly, just so I'm covered.

[CO Hummer]

In all seriousness.....Adam's proficiency in tie rods swap outs was MUCH appreciated. Each time we broke one we'd just say "Oh, no problem. ADAM!..." http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[MarineHawk]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fubar:
That can't be said for a broken t-case, stearing box, axel, or any other part up stream from the tie rods. WTF How do you break a t-case or driveshaft because of a HD tie rod?

I know you sell HD tie rods and sorry if this has hit a little close to home for you http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Pleezzzz I don't care if I never sell another tie rod, do not make this personal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

From personal experience, I can tell you that Phil has talked me out of buying expensive stuff from him to the point of convincing me I don't need stuff I was planning on getting from him. He's done this both on the phone and on this forum (see, e.g., http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/6706011751/m/2821074371 ). From my expereince, Phil = integrity. He also knows a hell of a lot about these rigs.

[h2co-pilot]

http://www.atkinsweb.com/shared/moab2006/46_MetaMash_Tierod.JPG

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifThat picture explains what he brought out from underneath the truck shortly after.http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.atkinsweb.com/shared/moab2006/02_AdamPoop.JPG

[Marcmedic]

Originally posted by h2co-pilot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> http://www.atkinsweb.com/shared/moab2006/46_MetaMash_Tierod.JPG

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifThat picture explains what he brought out from underneath the truck shortly after.http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.atkinsweb.com/shared/moab2006/02_AdamPoop.JPG </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kind of funny how it's the same H2 in both pics...

[Screeper]

I think the arguement for tierod upgrade also needs to take into account the offset of the wheels on the spindle. Like a seesaw when the spindle is centered in the wheel (split 50/50) very little force is required to change its position. The further out you move the weight/force (70/30) the greater force is needed to affect the object or even keep it straight. Once the wheels move out from the center of the spindle the tierods inherit the load due to leverage. I dont think the stock tie rods could survive for long with the 15.50 tires on a heavily offset rim. They might be fine on a truck with taller tires that retain the factory offset though. I also would like to say that Phil saved me a ton of money when modifying my truck and is one of the most respectable and helpful business people I have met. He even shipped an expensive item before I paid for it because he knew I needed it quickly as the truck was in pieces on the mechanics lift. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by Marcmedic:
That picture explains what he brought out from underneath the truck shortly after.http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif LMAO!!!

[CO Hummer]

Hey Neo,

What did you end up doing with your little Goldilocks braid you put in your pocket on LB?

http://www.atkinsweb.com/shared/moab2006/27_LB_Haircut1.JPG

[Sizzle Chest]

Cool! I heard the H2 was awsome offroad but haven't really seen pictures. Any more I can find on this stuff? That's great work guys. Anyone who cuts their hair off for hummer sake must be hardcore.

[Alan06SUT]

I agree with phil that since the drivetrain and streering systems are separate, A stonger tie rod will not directly cause a CV shaft breakage. Most IFS CV shaft breakage I have seen was due to excess angles on the shafts (from improper lifts: a ZR2, or excessive throttle while flexed out: 2500 chevy). Both times tie rods were unaffected.

However, a stronget tierod could cause the center link to bend or break, but if you didnt have the stonger tie rod, the tie rod would have boken (under less strees) before the CL bends;

so IMO stonger tie rods = good for ALL IFS set ups.

[PARAGON]

Holy shiat, how did I miss all of this.

The GM IFS is junk because of the steering. A more stable steering system could be engineered for IFS but if it's not costing GM much money to have a current setup utilized in a new vehicle, why make a change? The tie-rods snap and bend on 2500 Sierra pickups all of the time doing normal construction duty. It's not some new problem that has just shown up on the H2. It's amplified for the H2 because we run a larger stock tire and are able to put lifts and more larger tires on and actually wheel the things.

Just imagine a straw with the ends at the tip of your two index fingers. If you push inward, it's not entirely easy to bend the straw until it gets out of alignment with itself. The strength of a column. But if there was a bend or kink in it, when you applied a little pressure it would easily bend. The front tires on the H2 are your finger tips. In certain situations, the tires are getting traction and are pulling themselves around the pivot of the spindle and applying more force than normal on the steering linkage (the straw). This is really dramatic in situations such as Alec's video where the traction control suddenly kicks in or when the truck is bouncing and the tire is spinning in the air and suddenly makes contact with the ground and gains traction.

The tie rods attach to the steering knuckle forward of the pivot point. If there was room and a way that the tie rods could have attached behind the pivot of the knuckle THIS problem would be as common. This problem gets exaggerated when the front suspension droops or compresses because it makes the "bend in the straw" even more severe.

With all that being said, it really is an asinine comment to suggest that by beefing up the tie rods you will therefore be damaging the "driveline." Personally I believe that more components of the steering could be a little less forgiving and "beefed up." About the only way you will apply force past the pitman arm is if the driver is forcing the steering wheel. If the centerlink was a bit more sturdy, I think, we would see less problems from the front end if the drivers did not force the steering to the point of popping a steering gear.

I will say this. I have 37" tires, the FT stabilizers and the Cognito supports and I've been to Moab, Tellico and a place in Alabama since (well, I didn't have the Cognitos for Moab) and still do not need an alignment.

[Tah2oe]

Originally posted by Alec W:
I was skeptical of running with HD TRs for the reasons you mentioned Fubar, however after having HD TRs for 3 Moab trips I now agree with Phil. I was also skeptical about 37s and it was actually the HD TRs that convinced me to go that direction too.

The stock TRs bend like twigs (especially with 37s) and you can literally see them bending sometimes vs. the HD TRs that are rock solid. The original TRs are from a 2500 Suburban platform thus they were never designed to take the stress of hard wheeling and 37s so they simply bend because they are only ½ inch thick.

As far as breaking something else upstream it’s all driver, if you don’t know when to stop gassing it stuff breaks, period. Sometimes momentum is your best friend but knowing when and how to use it is what separates people.

Personally I’ve given mine a lot of abuse over the years and never had a single mechanical failure other than a snapped TR in 2003 (I think there maybe a video about it http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). I’ve replaced my stock Idler/Pitman and TRs with HD Fabtech parts and added 37s and that’s it everything else are my original stock parts (other than a cracked front diff in 2003).

Yes, the best demonstration of momentum is when you went up tipover.

[Tah2oe]

Originally posted by CO Hummer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tah2oe:
The tie rod he changed in the sand storm had to be the worst.

Actually, I think when he had to change it on Golden Spike while the engine was running (for the simultaneous rear winching activity) and while the vehicle was slipping was the worst. "Come on, guys http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif" http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But you're right... The change-out on Metal Masher doesn't look like much fun:

http://www.atkinsweb.com/shared/moab2006/46_MetaMash_Tierod.JPG </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Adam was definitely valuable on this trip. All of us appreciated him working on all of those tie rods. I am a little worried about the photo shop mods to this picture though.

[CO Hummer]

One important point about the Fabtech HD tie rods has been missed in this discussion.

They look cool.

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by Tah2oe:
I am a little worried about the photo shop mods to this picture though.

Wow. I never thought about that. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by CO Hummer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tah2oe:
I am a little worried about the photo shop mods to this picture though.

Wow. I never thought about that. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>rut ro

[HummerNewbie]

Now I would never be confused with a mechanic so this could be a dumb question but, could the fact that Neo and Bebe are running 35s have in any way contributed to what happened to their rigs?

[MarineHawk]

Originally posted by PhilD:
Just beacuse you don't break a tie rod, doesn't mean somethinmg else is going to break. Both times I broke CV's, there is hardly any stress on the steering and a super weak tie rod would have made no difference.

If you drive to the point of just risking breaking a tie rod, then HD ones will prevent this with no other ill effects. If you abuse your vehicle to extremes, then you are bound to break something else.

We don't hear of people with HD tie rods suddenly breaking driveshafts. Nearly all the driveshaft/CV breakages we hear about are due to other issues, lifts, lockers, etc.
...
Like I keep saying, if you push it to the limit, you are bound to break something else. But I personally don't believe the stock tie rod is anywhere near the limit of the H2.


Although anecdotal and perhaps an aberration, it would seem that CP’s mangling of the FT tie rod, while hurting nothing else (as far as we know) last month, is consistent with your idea that the HD rods aren’t the likely cause of driveline damage when it occurs.

[MarineHawk]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sizzle Chest:
Anyone who cuts their hair off for hummer sake must be hardcore. I do it every day http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does shaving really count as "cutting."

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by HummerNewbie:
Now I would never be confused with a mechanic so this could be a dumb question but, could the fact that Neo and Bebe are running 35s have in any way contributed to what happened to their rigs? From the explanation of how it occured and the picture of the one ring gear I saw, I would say no. The trucks were apparently not moving, no spinning tires, so the tires were just "there" exerting no force. The only "extra" they probably added to that situation was a little more contact patch and the associated traction, but that could occur with any tire.

I'm guessing that this shows that the I-5 isn't all that weak after all. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[HummerNewbie]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HummerNewbie:
Now I would never be confused with a mechanic so this could be a dumb question but, could the fact that Neo and Bebe are running 35s have in any way contributed to what happened to their rigs? From the explanation of how it occured and the picture of the one ring gear I saw, I would say no. The trucks were apparently not moving, no spinning tires, so the tires were just "there" exerting no force. The only "extra" they probably added to that situation was a little more contact patch and the associated traction, but that could occur with any tire.

I'm guessing that this shows that the I-5 isn't all that weak after all. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, that is what I figured the case was but wanted to check.

[ShaggyX]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HummerNewbie:
Now I would never be confused with a mechanic so this could be a dumb question but, could the fact that Neo and Bebe are running 35s have in any way contributed to what happened to their rigs? From the explanation of how it occured and the picture of the one ring gear I saw, I would say no. The trucks were apparently not moving, no spinning tires, so the tires were just "there" exerting no force. The only "extra" they probably added to that situation was a little more contact patch and the associated traction, but that could occur with any tire.

I'm guessing that this shows that the I-5 isn't all that weak after all. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Trucks werent moving...but the tires were spinning (on Neo's at least...didnt get a good view of Bebe).

[PackerFever]

Originally posted by ShaggyX:
......didnt get a good view of Bebe).

I got a good look at her http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif lol

Hey, I thought this thread was about pics?

http://www.buybreckenridge.com/images/DSCN6838.JPG

[PackerFever]

side note, I think Neo and Bebe both have adjusted their torsion bars...would that have contributed in any way to the carnage??? just askin.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ShaggyX:
Trucks werent moving...but the tires were spinning (on Neo's at least...didnt get a good view of Bebe). They should have designed weaker CV's then, that way the CV would break and protect everything upstream of it. I wonder of there is a market for weaker half shafts? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If the wheels were spinning it makes more sense, one (or both) most probably suddenly got traction and the sudden shock to the ring just stripped a few teeth. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>yeppers

[NEOCON1]

Originally posted by PackerFever:
side note, I think Neo and Bebe both have adjusted their torsion bars...would that have contributed in any way to the carnage??? just askin.

bebe has done the t-bar adjustment , i have NOT my truck sets the same as when it left the factory just 35's on stock wheels for me . 35's and t-bar crank on bebe's with stock wheels . only differince in tires is i have Toyos and she has BFG's


still in moab drinkin beers http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[NEOCON1]

[/QUOTE]They should have designed weaker CV's then, that way the CV would break and protect everything upstream of it. I wonder of there is a market for weaker half shafts? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If the wheels were spinning it makes more sense, one (or both) most probably suddenly got traction and the sudden shock to the ring just stripped a few teeth.[/QUOTE]yeppers[/QUOTE]

i think you nailed it we got hook up and sh1t busted , pretty simple

still in moab drinkin beers http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[hmrlvr]

still in moab drinkin beers
YOU DA MAN

[CslRkH2]

Originally posted by CO Hummer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CslRkH2:
What was the deal with the over-heating winch(es)? I didn't hear that whole story when we were on the trail.

I don't think any of the winches overheated. I thought my thermometric one did for moment, but the controller had just slipped out of place. Alec's winch acted up randomly and would stop working. But I don't think it was due to overheating. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

10-4

[ROX]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gifhttp://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/TR2Mediumpainted.jpg

[ROX]

Originally posted by hmrlvr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">still in moab drinkin beers
YOU DA MAN </div></BLOCKQUOTE>and margaritas! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[dochummer]

Looks like there might be another reason for tierod problems.... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[ROX]

Originally posted by Alec W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2 Rocks:
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
It looks like the is after Golden Spike, what happened? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>this is going 5mph in the sand on saturday, and the tie rod came out! I'm happy to report no damage to the car, and we were NOT on the highway at the time. I was able to put it back in and limp back to town, but it's not driveable until a new centerlink and tie rods get here. I'm SOoooooo happy I was waiting in Moab for an alignment, or I'd have been on the Highway driving home when that happened.

My car has been in for alignment and driverside issues before, now I think I know what was causing those problems.

The shocks are still going bye-bye.

[timgco]

Originally posted by H2 Rocks:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2 Rocks:
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
It looks like the is after Golden Spike, what happened? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>this is going 5mph in the sand on saturday, and the tie rod came out! I'm happy to report no damage to the car, and we were NOT on the highway at the time. I was able to put it back in and limp back to town, but it's not driveable until a new centerlink and tie rods get here. I'm SOoooooo happy I was waiting in Moab for an alignment, or I'd have been on the Highway driving home when that happened.

My car has been in for alignment and driverside issues before, now I think I know what was causing those problems.

The shocks are still going bye-bye. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That sucks Rox. I'm glad you found it there though an no extra damage was done!

...too bad on the shocks too. SUCK! Rancho 9000's time? Do the steering stabilizer at the same time.

[PARAGON]

The end of the centerlink where the threads are looks angled upward. Phil, Ken and I have been going back and forth about how much the centerlink might be contributing to failures. The centerlink is made to give or flex and that flex might be a little too much allowing for the tires to move too much.

Ever since, it's always been stated that if you wheel a IFS GM truck, that you will have to get an alignment done afterwards. Most of this is simply due to it being IFS but something has to move/give for it to come out of alignment and many times the mis-alignment is toe.

With the centerlink flexing so much it also is prematurely wearing out the pitman and idler arms where they attach to the centerlink, IMO.

[HummerNewbie]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
Ever since, it's always been stated that if you wheel a IFS GM truck, that you will have to get an alignment done afterwards. Most of this is simply due to it being IFS but something has to move/give for it to come out of alignment and many times the mis-alignment is toe.

Kind of off topic but your post reminded me of this. I recall someone mentioning 6 months or so ago about a national tire chain that offers a lifetime alignment. Whenever you think it might need it you just go back and they do it for free. Anyone remember this or is it all in my imagination?

[Tah2oe]

Originally posted by H2 Rocks:
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gifhttp://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/TR2Mediumpainted.jpg

Look at the shiny new sway bar connecting rod! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by HummerNewbie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Ever since, it's always been stated that if you wheel a IFS GM truck, that you will have to get an alignment done afterwards. Most of this is simply due to it being IFS but something has to move/give for it to come out of alignment and many times the mis-alignment is toe.

Kind of off topic but your post reminded me of this. I recall someone mentioning 6 months or so ago about a national tire chain that offers a lifetime alignment. Whenever you think it might need it you just go back and they do it for free. Anyone remember this or is it all in my imagination? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I said it, and H3s will work, but H2s with 37" tires won't. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Firestone service centers. A little over $100 for a lifetime alignment.

[MarineHawk]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
With the centerlink flexing so much it also is prematurely wearing out the pitman and idler arms where they attach to the centerlink, IMO.

How much, if any, do you think the Cognitos remedy this?