Attn: gun experts

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by RIC-H0

I had a Kel-Tec in .380 and was uncomfortable to shoot. Granted, it is very small, but did not enjoy shooting it, and wouldn't place alot of confidence in a gun that cost less than $150!!!

Needless to say, I traded in that gun, I think for a case of ammo and a jerry can .
IMO
Ric

I wouldn't carry one somewhere when I was really expecting something to happen, because of the lack of firepower. However, I'm a lot more likely to have it with me and it's got enough firepower to do the job 98 times out of 100. I've shot about 500 rounds through mine without a single failure. They cost about $350 new - not $150 (you may have gotten a deal, but I've seen scores of them for sale in recent years and always between $340 and $390). My experiences have been pretty much the same as this guy: http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec_P3AT.htm
The advantage of the KT to me is that it's as powerful as a .38 Special but barely bigger than a set of keys. You can always have it with you. I wouldn't want to take on a gang with it, but that's because of the caliber - not the gun. It's not that I'm cheap - I own probably $20K in guns, but I can't findn a smaller, more reliable gun of decent power.

[RIC-H0]

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

I wouldn't carry one somewhere when I was really expecting something to happen, because of the lack of firepower. However, I'm a lot more likely to have it with me and it's got enough firepower to do the job 98 times out of 100. I've shot about 500 rounds through mine without a single failure. They cost about $350 new - not $150 (you may have gotten a deal, but I've seen scores of them for sale in recent years and always between $340 and $390). My experiences have been pretty much the same as this guy: http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec_P3AT.htm
The advantage of the KT to me is that it's as powerful as a .38 Special but barely bigger than a set of keys. You can always have it with you. I wouldn't want to take on a gang with it, but that's because of the caliber - not the gun. It's not that I'm cheap - I own probably $20K in guns, but I can't findn a smaller, more reliable gun of decent power.

Sorry, Didn't mean to dog your gun.
Just as previously mentioned, It's a personal preference!
and yeah, I did get a hell of a deal on it, but lost a little on the trade in, so I guess it was a wash!

[Lucifer]

I'd recommend the .500 S&W Ghetto Hunter. Make sure you get the sling option. I don't think you would have anymore problems with that thing slung around your shoulder.

[Mr. I - Man]

Bersa 45. cal is a nice mini pistol with some knock down power!
Bersa Thunder Ultra Compact/Mini Pistol

Manufacturing
Make: Bersa
aka: Firestorm, Eagle
Country: Argentina
MSRP: $425

Ballistics
Caliber: 9mm, .40 SW, .45 ACP
Capacity: 10/13 round mag
Action: DA/SA

Dimensions
Type: Compact Pistol
Weight: 27.51 oz (780g)
Length: 6.7" (170 mm)
Barrel: 3.6" (91 mm)

Design
Frame/Finishes:
Matte, Satin Nickel, Duotone, Gold
Safety:
Intergral Locking System, Maunual, Firing Pin, Decock
Sights:
fixed, with front sight integral to the s

Or H&K P13 if you want some very small that can 13 rounds down range!!

[RIC-H0]

You want a little knock down power, Go with a T/C Contender in a 7-30 Waters. Better make it a good shot though...It's a single shooter!

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by RIC-H0

Sorry, Didn't mean to dog your gun.

Yes you did. And I'm very hurt.
And now it's personal.
Not that I'm agreeing with you, but do I have to use that small plasticky POS when we have our invetitable duel at 20 paces?

[RIC-H0]

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

Not that I'm agreeing with you, but do I have to use that small plasticky POS when we have our invetitable duel at 20 paces?

Can we make it 10 paces...I'm not a very good shot!

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by RIC-H0

Can we make it 10 paces...I'm not a very good shot!

Yes, but only if I get to use a combination of the the 12-gauge flame thrower ammo and the "Macho Gaucho" ammo: http://www.firequest.com/catalog/12_...mmunition.html
in one of these: http://www.serbu.com/shorty.htm

[RIC-H0]

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

Yes, but only if I get to use a combination of the the 12-gauge flame thrower ammo and the "Macho Gaucho" ammo: http://www.firequest.com/catalog/12_...mmunition.html
in one of these: http://www.serbu.com/shorty.htm

Yeah...Blow a couple of the 12GA Flash Thunder Grenade Ammo indoors. 'Cause it says it's safe for indoor use!!!

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by RIC-H0

Yeah...Blow a couple of the 12GA Flash Thunder Grenade Ammo indoors. 'Cause it says it's safe for indoor use!!!

There's a lot of fun stuff on that site. Someday, I've got to try out the flame throwing ammo. Maybe after I up my life insurance policy.

[Arizona Hummerboy]

As a ex-police officer, I would say if you have to carry a gun, I would say take a hand gun training course on self defense. If you have to draw down on someone and point a gun at them, you must be ready and willing to shoot that person if you have to, and be willing to shoot to kill if it come's down to it.

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by Arizona Hummerboy

As a ex-police officer, I would say if you have to carry a gun, I would say take a hand gun training course on self defense. If you have to draw down on someone and point a gun at them, you must be ready and willing to shoot that person if you have to, and be willing to shoot to kill if it come's down to it.

Do you recommend the 12 gauge flame thrower rounds or the Macho Gaucho rounds for confronting inner-city gang members?

[RIC-H0]

Originally Posted by Arizona Hummerboy

As a ex-police officer, I would say if you have to carry a gun, I would say take a hand gun training course on self defense. If you have to draw down on someone and point a gun at them, you must be ready and willing to shoot that person if you have to, and be willing to shoot to kill if it come's down to it.

I completely agree...
Never point your gun at anything that you aren't willing to kill!
Education is the key to safety, and practice is mandatory!

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by Arizona Hummerboy

As a ex-police officer, I would say if you have to carry a gun, I would say take a hand gun training course on self defense. If you have to draw down on someone and point a gun at them, you must be ready and willing to shoot that person if you have to, and be willing to shoot to kill if it come's down to it.

BTW: I appreciate your service in the police force. It's just as valuable as military or other national service.

[Racer-X]

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

BTW: I appreciate your service in the police force. It's just as valuable as military or other national service.

X2

And thanks Arizona, I'll look into one in my area. Also going to look into a permit to carry concealed but I bet that won't happen here in Ca.

[ETD]

Are you an obvious target? I'm sure you do not drive in the Hummer, right? Are you going in at night with your signage and tattoo's ablazing? You have survived being held at gun point several times but having a gun in those situations would have guaranteed you getting killed, IMHO (unless you have a background in close quarter combat, NOT playing around @ the shooting range, but actually shooting at living/breathing people who want to kill you). IMHO, it is irresponsible for me and others to give you advice on what would be the best gun to have in your pocket when the coroner goes over your dead body. My own advice is if you consider those situations so intrinsic in your livelihood (for civilians, I can only come up with a couple of scenarios e.g. bounty hunter and body guard) then become proficient in close quarter combat by studying with a reputable professional rather than just shopping around for firearm (is your life really worth a one time purchase of $300-$500 or a lifetime of careful and diligent study of the martial arts). Most Ninjutsu practitioners, for example, are given wide berth in otherwise hostile territories based on just the aura they project. And that's just $0.02 worth of advice. Good luck.

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by ETD

IMHO, it is irresponsible for me and others to give you advice on what would be the best gun to have in your pocket when the coroner goes over your dead body.

IMHO, it is irresponsible for me and others to advise someone to not arm himself when the coroner goes over his dead body because he was in a fight without a weapon. Of course, he needs to be trained. Read the Armed Citizen feature in the American Rifleman. It's regulalry filled with stories of people who saved their lives by deploying a firearm against people who were threatening them annd/or their families. I've noticed that many of them are 80 year old women. certainly, most of them aren't Navy Seals or otherwise have a "background in close quarter combat."

[ETD]

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

IMHO, it is irresponsible for me and others to advise someone to not arm himself when the coroner goes over his dead body because he was in a fight without a weapon. Of course, he needs to be trained. Read the Armed Citizen feature in the American Rifleman. It's regulalry filled with stories of people who saved their lives by deploying a firearm against people who were threatening them annd/or their families. I've noticed that many of them are 80 year old women. certainly, most of them aren't Navy Seals or otherwise have a "background in close quarter combat."

Can not disagree with you there. You simply quoted one line in my answer but agreed with the rest of my premise based on your subsequent answers. I simply wanted to point out that unlike all the "80 years old women" (Is that really so? ) opportunistic gun slingers, young Racer-X here knowingly enters hostile territories and therefore needs to be and can be prepared better than just "carry & shoot". No disrespect meant to all the firearm experts out there (I am admittedly not a handgun user), just wanted to get a little deeper into preparation than just the generic "what's everyone's favorite handgun" question. You and others did indeed go deeper with links to Marines and Frontsight where he will hopefully learn anticipation rather than response will be the key i.e. he knows he is going into hostile territory, he knows what the hostile agents look like, he will be ready most of the time before there is a gun pointing at him from 6 feet away and won't have to find out "what is the best response when there is a gun pointed at my head". More importantly, he will know whether he will be able to take a living human down for good or whether he will choose evasion at that moment before the conflict goes down. Not everyone can kill another human being at close range and it is difficult to know if you can or not until after the first one. Training that involves thinking about and simulation of another human being's death helps. Young Racer-X may decide that after much study, it may be better for him to forgo "clients" that puts him in situations where his life or another human being's life is at risk of permanent room temperature status. IMHO, of course.

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by ETD

Young Racer-X may decide that after much study, it may be better for him to forgo "clients" that puts him in situations where his life or another human being's life is at risk of permanent room temperature status. IMHO, of course.

That's definitely one option to consider.

[ETD]

Or young Racer-X does a little mathematics and figures out that for a reasonable percentage of revenue from "war-zone client" he can afford to hire a body-guard to accompany him into the war-zone. In this way, he does not have to spend $$$ and time in preparation, does his thing with "war-zone client" (WTH does Racer -X do with these clients anyways ), and let the professional worry about the hostile forces shootin & lootin. That would be optimal utilization of resources, no?