Attn: gun experts

[ShaggyX]

CC is just asking for trouble, and is more likely to escalate the issue then anything else. That is all.

[CO Hummer]

Originally Posted by ShaggyX

CC is just asking for trouble, and is more likely to escalate the issue then anything else. That is all.

Do you mind if I quote you for a Deep Thinker's Hall of Fame nomination?

[ShaggyX]

Originally Posted by CO Hummer

Do you mind if I quote you for a Deep Thinker's Hall of Fame nomination?

I will gladly endorse this request.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by ShaggyX

CC is just asking for trouble, and is more likely to escalate the issue then anything else. That is all.

I agree if you don't pay them off every month. If you carry the balance the interest rates will eat you up.

[Mrs.ssippi]

Originally Posted by PhilD

Spoken like a true whining liberal "Don't do anything to upset them and they'll leave you alone" Shoot them dead and then see if they can hurt you anymore

Phil, I like how you think!

[Andy C]

The mark of a true professional is KNOWING when NOT to draw a gun.
Always remember that by drawing a weapon you have just turned a dangerous situation into a deadly one - so you had better bloody well know how to use it.

If anyone has any questions about this ask Peter Blake, oh wait he is dead. (Famous round the world sailor that was shot and killed in the Amazon after he tried to pull a gun on armed robbers, interestingly they did not kill the rest of the crew, witnesses, they just fled the scene)

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by Andy C

The mark of a true professional is KNOWING when NOT to draw a gun.
Always remember that by drawing a weapon you have just turned a dangerous situation into a deadly one - so you had better bloody well know how to use it.

If anyone has any questions about this ask Peter Blake, oh wait he is dead. (Famous round the world sailor that was shot and killed in the Amazon after he tried to pull a gun on armed robbers, interestingly they did not kill the rest of the crew, witnesses, they just fled the scene)

Your assertion seems to be in opposition to 800,000 to 2.5 million instances where law abiding citizens use firearms successfully in self defense in the U.S. every year. Note: Most estimates are much higher. 14 studies fell between 800,000 and 2.5m; one study, the lowest by far, was 108,000.
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html
http://www.gunsandcrime.org/dgufreq.html

Even 108,000 (and even ABC News acknowledged that the number was higher) is an awful lot of non-weird-rainforest incidents and many times higher than the total number of murders comitted in the U.S. every year.

As far as anectdotes, how about the time when a New Orleans resident pulled into his driveway in the mid-90s and there was a strange van in his driveway and his wife inside. [At the time, the average response time to a 911 call in N.O. was 38 minutes (I lived there and had NOPD members in my Marine Resurve unit)]. At that point, [1] he could wait who knows how long for the cops while they molest/kill his wife; [2] run in unarmed; or [3] go in there and kill the intruders. Fortunately, he chose option [3]. He saved his wife from certain tragedy.
He quickly drew his pistol and entered through the front door. He found three large men inside along with his nude wife tied to a chair. [She hadn't been raped yet.] He fired. He killed one; inured another; and pursued the third out the door. The intruders were armed and at least one was a convicted rapist (released, of course). By not "cooperating" with these guys, he saved himself and wife from some pretty serious tragedy. That kind of story happens a lot more often than the weird rain-forest stuff.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by Andy C

The mark of a true professional is KNOWING when NOT to draw a gun.
Always remember that by drawing a weapon you have just turned a dangerous situation into a deadly one - so you had better bloody well know how to use it.

If anyone has any questions about this ask Peter Blake, oh wait he is dead. (Famous round the world sailor that was shot and killed in the Amazon after he tried to pull a gun on armed robbers, interestingly they did not kill the rest of the crew, witnesses, they just fled the scene)

Has nothing to do with professionalism. It's maintenance of life. You can never assume what someone is going to do. You don't risk yours or anyone else's life on the possibility that someone just wants your wallet. They might want the path of least resistance and take your "property" and then take your life so that there is no witnesses.

Proper employment of any weapon is a responsibility and has to be gauged by the situation. If you are willing to simply shoot someone because you can get away with it because they pointed a gun at you, then you shouldn't carry. But, sorry, if you THINK that is all that is going to occur, your chance of death in the event he chooses to kill you is 100%.

Inaction is a choice, just as choosing to shoot a badguy is. Inaction carries it's own responsibilities just as shooting someone does. Yes, making the right decisions on WHEN to act is just as important as the type of action.

Racer, in all honesty. IMO you need to re-evaluate your need to carry a gun. You have plenty of time to think these things through right now aforehand and you are second guessing the shoot/no shoot situation. I'm sorry, but the simple truth is that if you have a gun pointed at you, and unless you are 100% positive that person is not going to shoot you or another person, you have to shoot that person. You cannot guess what their actions are going to be.

I'll put it in a different perspective. If it was some grungy guy with a gun to your head and he was simply asking for your wife's purse, how can you assume he is not attempting to gain keys or something to a vehicle so he can kidnap her to take her and rape her.

[PARAGON]

Wierd,

Two Marines posting the exact same time about wive's getting hurt scenarios

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

Wierd,

Two Marines posting the exact same time about wive's getting hurt scenarios

I think yours was more articulate.

My wife fought off one of three attackers armed with handguns (the other two were subduing the two guys she was with) outside of a restaurant off of Greenville Ave. in Dallas in the late 90s before I knew her. She is writing a book about it and related concepts. They took one of guys' keys and were trying to start my wife's car (wrong set of keys). She instinctively began attacking the guy (had some limited martial arts experience) and sceaming loud enough to attract the valets. Bad guys realized things were going from bad to worse and fled. Who knows whether or not she would have ended up in the car and raped or worse if she had been compliant and "cooperated"? She wasn't going to let that happen, even if it meant living with a little risk that these are just misguided guys who would only get provoked by an aggressive response.
As well as that turned out, she and the other two guys would have had more options if they had been armed.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

I think yours was more articulate.

My wife fought off one of three attackers armed with handguns (the other two were subduing the two guys she was with) outside of a restaurant off of Greenville Ave. in Dallas in the late 90s before I knew her. She is writing a book about it and related concepts. They took one of guys' keys and were trying to start my wife's car (wrong set of keys). She instinctively began attacking the guy (had some limited martial arts experience) and sceaming loud enough to attract the valets. Bad guys realized things were going from bad to worse and fled. Who knows whether or not she would have ended up in the car and raped or worse if she had been compliant and "cooperated"? She wasn't going to let that happen, even if it meant living with a little risk that these are just misguided guys who would only get provoked by an aggressive response.
As well as that turned out, she and the other two guys would have had more options if they had been armed.

Ok, for the freaking record. I have never heard your wife's story or talked to you or about any of this before. That's too freaky for me and I am going to now go dry fire a few times.

[Racer-X]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

Racer, in all honesty. IMO you need to re-evaluate your need to carry a gun. You have plenty of time to think these things through right now aforehand and you are second guessing the shoot/no shoot situation. I'm sorry, but the simple truth is that if you have a gun pointed at you, and unless you are 100% positive that person is not going to shoot you or another person, you have to shoot that person. You cannot guess what their actions are going to be.

I'm seeing your point. So how am I better off without a gun? If he's going to shoot me for his next crack rock - which is better - to be unarmed or hesitating to pull and shoot?

I think this is where the class will come into play. All of your views are changing my thoughts on what I would do. The class would likely further that, no?

I'll put it in a different perspective. If it was some grungy guy with a gun to your head and he was simply asking for your wife's purse, how can you assume he is not attempting to gain keys or something to a vehicle so he can kidnap her to take her and rape her.

Point taken Edited to add: I think I would react very differently with my wife or kids around.

[ETD]

Originally Posted by Racer-X

I think this is where the class will come into play. All of your views are changing my thoughts on what I would do. The classes would likely further that, no?

You got it. Good luck and Godspeed.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by Racer-X

I'm seeing your point. So how am I better off without a gun? If he's going to shoot me for his next crack rock - which is better - to be unarmed or hesitating to pull and shoot?

I think this is where the class will come into play. All of your views are changing my thoughts on what I would do. The class would likely further that, no?



Point taken Edited to add: I think I would react very differently with my wife or kids around.

How are you better with one if you fail to employ it?

w/o a gun? It can't be used against you. There's some large percentage of individuals' own weapons being used against them. That's where awareness comes into play. I don't think I've said this enough. But more pointedly, you have no idea what the BG is going to do.

Class? Most definitely. It's more realistic and frank and goes over the pros and cons. It is invaluable for confidence, but it doesn't stop there. You have to be willing to practice after that.

On your edit: that was my point for adding that. It should not come into play in your decision making process. If someone is a danger to you or anyone else, and that danger is to cause great bodily harm or death, then you have to be willing to react and deal with the consequences OR not react and deal with those different, but otherwise very real, consequences.