Why the FJ Cruiser is no Threat to the H3

[BlueTJCO]

I ran Spring Creek with one and it made Spring Creek it's bitch....it was not even funny......I'm sure it took some money to get it where it was at but there was nothing stopping it......

[BlueTJCO]

turbo charged diesel engines
beefy ass solid axles
locked front and rear
front and rear coil springs

remove the side steps, a little lift, and boom.........

not to say that it's not the same as the H2......very capable when played with, but the Land Cruiser 80 series I had the chance to wheel with had my jaw dropping at every obstacle....

[31_bandits]

This isn't meant as inflammatory, and certainly Moon seems like a nice guy and has superior photoshop skills, but:

what is the obession of

A) comparing wildly modified 4wd's to stock H2s
and
B) calling wildly modified 4wd's "jeeps" or "four runners"

its not a jeep anymore by the time it makes the internets glory-pages. and that's not a landcruiser.

Does the presence of a Supra or 10 somewhere in california that can run a 1/4 mile faster than an Enzo mean that Toyotas are faster than Ferarris?

What that landcruiser does has nothing to do with what a landcruiser can do, it has something to do with the skill, budget, time, and knowledge of the modifier.

And remember that, like an H2, a landcruiser is a really nice truck. comfy and reasonably quiet and smooth riding and you can put people and stuff in it and all of those.

and by the time you make the above changes, you'll have mangled some or much or most of those virtues...

so you haven't necessarily gained or improved, you've changed.


I admire the H2 for being such a good offroad machine AND nice/comfy/smooth/quiet. plus its cool.

Lets see a stock landcruiser outclass an H2. If it can, it can, and that wouldn't shake me up much. I've got 50 years left to be old and crusty and drive something germane, sedate, and acceptable among the tea & crumpets crowd.

For now, i'm just going to continue to marvel at the H2s ability to do what only it can do - generate an emotional reaction from basically everybody.

[31_bandits]

i know this is the FJ/H3 thread, but it's ventured a bit off topic and if nobody minds i'll continue a bit O/T

does any non-hummer vehicle have guys like these guys that drive the Moab and rubicon and whatever trails in a stock truck that's still comfy/quiet/nice?

The Wrangler Rubi doesn't start that way, so its excluded (but the style is undeniably appealing, of course). Still, 99% of jeep offroad vids are modified, a good percentage of stock H2s seem to make film, no?

[ShaggyX]

With a good driver I would say the following vehicles could make it through the rubicon based on what I have heard and seen (videos/Pics):

H1
H2
H3
Tacoma TRD
FJ Crusier (with DL and/or Atrac Options)
LandCrusier 80 Series (like the one Moon posted...but stock)
Xterra (05+ Offroad Addition)
Wrangler Rubicon
S10 Zr2 (with me behind the wheel)
Blazer Zr2 (with real tires...and me behind the wheel)
D90
Range Rover

ok...this list is getting too long...you get the point. I honestly believe that any Stock Truck in the >30" tire class, and a locker could do the Rubicon with a good driver.

As far as On-Road/Off-Road Creature Comforts...more or less just compare prices and you can tell which ones are more comfortable on road. Call $35k the comfy cut off. >$35k is probably posh. <$35k is not.

Just my unbiased (believe it or not) .02

[Aubs]

See, I agree with 31 bandits. Once you start doing all this stuff to a vehicle, it's become something else. Would you actually want to drive that LC around all the time?? It has to walk all over the place, not to mention the handling. In my mind, it's stock or nothing. Putting all this money into modifications is silly. I was just driving around, looking at stock LC's. There is hardly any room for articulation (same for the FJ), and there's so much overhang front and back. I had a '99 LC, and it was just not made for heavy duty off-road venturing. Unless you modified it. But then it's a modified off-road vehicle, not a LC. So all comparisons should be stock/stock. Maybe we should make that a rule.

Back to the FJ, I just want to see one following me or an H3, both COMPLETELY STOCK, and see which comes out on top. No mods. Just what the factory gave you.

IF, for some reason, you WANT to compare stock to ungodly modified, then both vehicles SHOULD BE MODIFIED. This comparing stock to modified is stupid. Because, obviously, the modified one will be better.

Besides, I could probably take an Aztec with 4WD, and make it into an awesome modified off-road beast. It would have sharp looks (don't cut yourself on the pointy edges), all the soccer mommy comforts (and air vents EXACTLY like an H2!), and it would look sooooo cool!

[BlueTJCO]

Originally Posted by 31_bandits

This isn't meant as inflammatory, and certainly Moon seems like a nice guy and has superior photoshop skills, but:

what is the obession of

A) comparing wildly modified 4wd's to stock H2s
and
B) calling wildly modified 4wd's "jeeps" or "four runners"

its not a jeep anymore by the time it makes the internets glory-pages. and that's not a landcruiser.

Does the presence of a Supra or 10 somewhere in california that can run a 1/4 mile faster than an Enzo mean that Toyotas are faster than Ferarris?

What that landcruiser does has nothing to do with what a landcruiser can do, it has something to do with the skill, budget, time, and knowledge of the modifier.

And remember that, like an H2, a landcruiser is a really nice truck. comfy and reasonably quiet and smooth riding and you can put people and stuff in it and all of those.

and by the time you make the above changes, you'll have mangled some or much or most of those virtues...

so you haven't necessarily gained or improved, you've changed.


I admire the H2 for being such a good offroad machine AND nice/comfy/smooth/quiet. plus its cool.

Lets see a stock landcruiser outclass an H2. If it can, it can, and that wouldn't shake me up much. I've got 50 years left to be old and crusty and drive something germane, sedate, and acceptable among the tea & crumpets crowd.

For now, i'm just going to continue to marvel at the H2s ability to do what only it can do - generate an emotional reaction from basically everybody.

I admire them both.....and I really like the H2 and it's capabilities.........

but you are not convincing me that I cant compare a stock vehicle to a built up vehicle. If your going to get into wheeling your going to want to modify your vehicle at some point. So doesnt the ease of modifying that vehicle and the price of modifying it come into play somewhere? The H2 is good in stock form, YES! One of the BEST!

But show me an H2 with solid front and rear axles, e-locker front and rear, center diff locker, and some of the other doo dads they have. The Land Cruiser is very comparable to the H2..........trust me........

and a built up Jeep is in it's own league.....I dont compare them to an H2 because they both are very different with the angles they must approach and obstacle at, wheelbase, size, yada yada yada......A jeep is a Jeep and the only thing I'd compare it to may be a D-90 or a well built sami....

[31_bandits]

Originally Posted by Mooncricket

I admire them both.....and I really like the H2 and it's capabilities.........

but you are not convincing me that I cant compare a stock vehicle to a built up vehicle. If your going to get into wheeling your going to want to modify your vehicle at some point. So doesnt the ease of modifying that vehicle and the price of modifying it come into play somewhere? The H2 is good in stock form, YES! One of the BEST!

But show me an H2 with solid front and rear axles, e-locker front and rear, center diff locker, and some of the other doo dads they have. The Land Cruiser is very comparable to the H2..........trust me........

well not to be a pest, but all H2s have center and rear lockers (which i'm sure you know). PhilDs has a front locker, i think i'm going to spring for one as well, but i'm not sure when i'd need it. So the solid axles are the hangup??

As for the landcruiser -vs- H2 stock (H2 values for air suspension)

clearance: Landcruiser=8.3 & 9.8 depending on where you look, H2= (10 to rear axle housing, 10.8 rated)
The hummers are rated accurately for minimum ground clearance. alot of other vehicles are over-stated for clearance. several pickups come to mind (toyota tundra), the Wrangler Rubi is rated at 10.something, but is <9" to the differentials, same for the FJ, and so forth. For example, the big 'yota pickup is rated higher than the H2, i think, for clearance, but with the two sitting side by side i can't imagine how they determined this.

I'll go measure a landcruiser and post the results. and my hummer. with the same ruler. it won't be closer than 1-2".

approach angle: h2=43, landcruiser=31
departure angle: H2=40, landcruiser=24
breakover angle: H2=27.5, landcruiser=24

locking diffs: H2, center and rear
landcruiser: center only

crawl ratio: similar

The hummers suspension is more modern i'd wager, and i'd wager its traction control system also outclasses that on the Landcruiser.

And considering that in my humble, and not that impressive offroading, i've found times that the H2s approach/departure/clearance are challenged (though really not its traction except in mud), i shall humbly wager that the landcruiser will ram its nose into alot of things & generally not be a match for the stock hummer.

and its fairly gay, and doesn't cause a going-on-5-year panic among web-jeepers, both of which are fairly enjoyable traits of the H2 (non-gayness and jeep freakouts).


With respect to the solid front axel. I am not an offroading expert, and certainly not as much as you may be (or may not, i guess), but i don't think that you always want a solid front axel. Driving fast on bumpy roads comes to mind.

and a built up Jeep is in it's own league.....

i selectively clipped your comment to be a pain.

I think a stock H2 could stand up to or beat at least the vast majority of build 4wds in an offroad "race" across a bumpy/tossy surface and i think it could climb steeper hills, and especially turn onto steep slopes. I suspect that the width and length = stability (center of gravity thing, draw some lines, if it doesn't go over the lines you're good). See, i think a "built" jeep would enhance both the strengths and weaknesses of a stock Rubi. So the things the H2 is better at it would only be more better at, and vice-versa.

I politely accept that your rig can do a great many things better than mine. And i'm not disrespecting it at all, but i think my butt-stock rig could outperform yours at many things as well. And in the places i've found to offroad, big rocks aren't, and big hills & bumpy trails are.

this message edited due to bandits hesitance over internet novicedom. It was more (but not impolitely) challenging before.

[31_bandits]

i'm also sure / i accept / that there are times when two solid axles would be preferable.

and maybe there are tiems when independent front and back would be best, what do i know?

[31_bandits]

it seems to me, just my two pennies, that to compare things, you can do any of the following

-compare two vehicles, whatever form they may be in

-cmopare stock vehicles. that would be relevant to jeep-vs-hummer. you'd need the same places (and a variety of places, mind) and the same or comparable drivers. and no 100000000% subjective jpmagazine BS, you'd have to simply have pass/fail for a series of obstacles.

-compare the build-potential of a variety of vehicles. what can be built starting from a jeep or a hummer or whatever. but even then you'd have to have the same person build the thing with the same quota of available options - or feasibly available options.


but you can't say "landcruisers rule" or "jeeps rule" based on a wild non-jeep or non-landcruiser.


that's like strapping a rocket motor on a sophia and screaming "kias are the fastest cars on the road!!!!"

[ShaggyX]

FWIW...body clearance does not factor into "Minimum Clearance". Just because a truck looks like it sits higher...doesnt mean it has more Minimum clearance. Tire size and axle configuration are really the only 2 factors for Minimum clearance.

In the grand scheme of things I would imagine it really just comes down to personal preferance. For pure off-road give me a Tacoma TRD any day (in hindsight...that would have been a better purchase then the Xterra). That is probably my ideal configuration. 32's stock. Rear locker. Long Wheelbase. Minimal weight. Probably the perfect truck for me.

Put an H2 owner behind the wheel of an H2 and a Taco and the H2 will do better 99% of the time

Put me behind the wheel of an H2 and a Taco (bear in mind I have never actually driven a Taco...this is based on my experience with my former s10 Zr2) and the Taco will do better 99% of the time (I do not "Baja"...so that does not factor into the equation).