Front leveling = Rear sagging???

[Sewie]

Well, I'm definitely no expert. Maybe some folks with more knowledge can give some input here.

[Ipedog]

Originally Posted by Sewie

Well, I'm definitely no expert. Maybe some folks with more knowledge can give some input here.

Hell, neither am I LOL. I'm just trying to envision the mechanics of this whole thing and try to get us farther into the air in a timely manner and without having to sell off our children!

Just so that we're on the same sheet of music... The part that you're refering to as the hanger is this, right?:




No, its all good Sewie. For all I know I am totally way out in left field talking out my butt. Hopefully someone with some knowledge will chime in.

This is the way I'm figuring it (put on your thinking caps ):

Call the connection of the leaf spring at the hanger "A"
The connection of the axel to the leaf spring "B"
and the connection to the leaf spring at the shackle "C"

Assume that the leaf spring always returns to its basic shape

A is a fixed point and cannot move in relationship to the body of the vehicle
B is a fixed height in relationship to the ground

If C is forced down away from the truck with a longer shackle and B is a constant, fixed distance above the ground, AND the leaf spring retains its basic shape

The result is point A must be forced higher into the air. This is because if point C is pushed down then point A must go up because point B is a constant.

The end result is a lift.

Oh well... I'm probably talking out of my butt. ;-p

[HummBebe]

so we were hanging up on our hangers???

Ipe, you are doing great so far, but I need visuals of A, B and C.....prease

[Sewie]

Originally Posted by HummBebe

so we were hanging up on our hangers???

Among other things.

That and the UCP were the two biggest clearance issues.

[HummBebe]

Ok, so the guys that kept saying we were hanging up on our shackles really meant we were hanging up on our hangers???

Just don't want to be confused....thanks.

[Sewie]

I call 'em hangers. I'm probably wrong.

But yes, that's what was hitting most of the time. Have you taken a look under your truck yet?

[HummBebe]

Ahm too askeered

[Ipedog]

Originally Posted by HummBebe

so we were hanging up on our hangers???

Ipe, you are doing great so far, but I need visuals of A, B and C.....prease

Okay Bebe's

In this pic you see what I'm calling the hanger. Its triangular in shape and welded to the frame. Call this point A



In these next two pics you see where the rear axel is attached to the leaf spring. Where the upside down U shaped bolts attach the leaf spring to the axel is point B

In this pic you can see the hanger A in the left of the pic.



In the this pic you can see the shackle C in the right of the pic.




In this pic you see the OEM shackle. Its about 2.3 to 3" long and is where the leaf spring attaches at end (bumper) of the truck. Call this point C


Does this make it any clearer Bebe?

[HummerNewbie]

I have no clue about suspensions but why couldn't the leaf springs just go over the top of the rear axle rather than under. You would get a lift at point A & C that way too.

[Sewie]

Originally Posted by HummerNewbie

I have no clue about suspensions but why couldn't the leaf springs just go over the top of the rear axle rather than under. You would get a lift at point A & C that way too.

http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/s...34&postcount=2

[HummerNewbie]

Originally Posted by Sewie

http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/s...34&postcount=2

Doh!!

I read that but totally forgot, sorry Bebe

[Ipedog]

Originally Posted by HummerNewbie
I have no clue about suspensions but why couldn't the leaf springs just go over the top of the rear axle rather than under. You would get a lift at point A & C that way too.

My quick answer would be that:

1. You are way over the 1.5 to 2 inches of lift that the torsion bars can realisticly do
2. You are messing with something very complicated with an under vs. over move. I'm not sure this would be something that should be done without some SERIOUS engineering

Besides that... I can't really think of anything. I think that the first point is the key thing here though.

[evldave]

What you want are a simple set of lift shackles. $600 is a lot of money for that. Wrangler owners use them for an easy 2" of lift.

Basically, they extend the rear mounting point of the leaf spring down from it's current position about 3-4" (or however long you want to go - more is riskier because of the forces involved). By lowering the rear of the leaf spring, you lower the tire in relation to the body, thereby raising the body.

One this you must be careful about is pinion angle. By only lowering the rear of the axle, you pivot the pumpkin UP towards the t-case, changing pinion angle - depending on conditions, you may need to shim the rear axle (at point B).

Here's what it will do for clearance (imho). The height of the pumpkin is determined by the tire height, the height of the body (and undercarraige) is determined by tire + suspension. By lifting the rear of the leaf pack, you will gain a small amount (maybe .5-1") near the front of the vehicle, but you will gain ~1-1.5" at the rear bumper. This would be very good for rock clearance on your departure angle, but shackles won't help approach (and if you raise the rear of the truck, it might hurt, relatively speaking, your approach angles).

I was at the dealer yesterday looking at the rancho lift. They have a set of long shackles in the back, maybe 4". I didn't look in the front to see if they used a hanger extension (my jeep lift had that). If you also had a hanger extension (for the front of the leaf springs), you wouldn't have pinion angle issues.



If you want to go better, get a set of revolver shackles. These are a two-piece lift shackle, that is folded in half in normal operation. When the wheel starts to drop, the shackles actually 'opens' and allows the rear axle to drop more than the leaf springs will allow. This helps on rocks to keep one extra wheel on the ground. I did a quickie google search and couldn't find any revolver shackles for the H3.

[HummBebe]

Originally Posted by Ipedog

Okay Bebe's

In this pic you see what I'm calling the hanger. Its triangular in shape and welded to the frame. Call this point A



In these next two pics you see where the rear axel is attached to the leaf spring. Where the upside down U shaped bolts attach the leaf spring to the axel is point B

In this pic you can see the hanger A in the left of the pic.



In the this pic you can see the shackle C in the right of the pic.




In this pic you see the OEM shackle. Its about 2.3 to 3" long and is where the leaf spring attaches at end (bumper) of the truck. Call this point C


Does this make it any clearer Bebe?

CRYSTAL
Thanks!!

[HummBebe]

Learning makes me all giggly

[evldave]

http://www.oly4x4.com/teraflex.htm

Scroll halfway down, you'll see a $70 set of shackles for an XJ (Jeep Cherokee). Super cheap way of lifting the rear of your vehicle. I'd bet you can get a reputable fab shop to do the same for $100.

Watch out for buginess, though. If you crank the t-bars and also lift the rear, you're going to end up with the same 'Present thyself' stance w/the azz end up in the air - great for rear clearance, but looks funny.

[allan p]

xterra owners have referred to such lift as the "Poor Man's Lift" or PML for some time. You can buy a set of these for a whopping 5o bux and lift the ass end an inch and a half to counter the front's torsion bar crank.

a l l a n

[thunderbry]

I've just been reading all of these ideas which i think are great and will work fine. But im thinking an even easier way to do this is to measure shock length and buy a simple set of air shox from your neighborhood auto zone then you could just lift the vehicle when needed as apposed to driving around with the back in the air all of the time. I had a ZR2 Chevy blazer which we have all seen with the back ends sagging to the ground and did this and it was awsome especially if you ever trailer with the vehicle you can just pump up the shox until you level it out. And it will give us all something to use those trick onboard air compressors for. I think the set of shox i bought were around $50.00. Just a thought

[wpage]

Wonder how far you could go B4 the need for extending hoses etc would be required without damage? Looking at the rear the distance from ground to universal gearcase is about 9" with stock/standard tires. If shackels were extended one inch at "C" It would have no effect there. Only raise body. This is unlike torsion bar tightening effect which effects both elements in front.
This would appear to solve the sag issue on the surface. However underneath the rear would still be low...

[Desert Dan]

I am still looking for rear spring u-bolt skid plate/sliders. Has anyone seen them? I have only seen them on th AM Star web site

A spring perch slider would be good too.


Does anyone know what spring and suspension set up they use on the Rod Hall stock class H3 race truck??