Front leveling = Rear sagging???

[Ipedog]

Originally Posted by HummBebe

so we were hanging up on our hangers???

Ipe, you are doing great so far, but I need visuals of A, B and C.....prease

Okay Bebe's

In this pic you see what I'm calling the hanger. Its triangular in shape and welded to the frame. Call this point A



In these next two pics you see where the rear axel is attached to the leaf spring. Where the upside down U shaped bolts attach the leaf spring to the axel is point B

In this pic you can see the hanger A in the left of the pic.



In the this pic you can see the shackle C in the right of the pic.




In this pic you see the OEM shackle. Its about 2.3 to 3" long and is where the leaf spring attaches at end (bumper) of the truck. Call this point C


Does this make it any clearer Bebe?

[HummerNewbie]

I have no clue about suspensions but why couldn't the leaf springs just go over the top of the rear axle rather than under. You would get a lift at point A & C that way too.

[Sewie]

Originally Posted by HummerNewbie

I have no clue about suspensions but why couldn't the leaf springs just go over the top of the rear axle rather than under. You would get a lift at point A & C that way too.

http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/s...34&postcount=2

[HummerNewbie]

Originally Posted by Sewie

http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/s...34&postcount=2

Doh!!

I read that but totally forgot, sorry Bebe

[Desert Dan]

I was wondering about a different set of rear leaf springs where the main leaf was flush with the bottom spring hanger. This would raise the vehicle maybe 1.5" and you wouldn't have the notch wbeteen the hanger and leaf to get hung up on a rock?

This would required a differnt bend or wrap on the main leaf and maybe add a millitary full wrap on the 2nd leaf?

Look at a Rancho leaf spring for a Jeep Wrangler or an old CJ5 or Land Cruiser.

[Ipedog]

Originally Posted by HummerNewbie
I have no clue about suspensions but why couldn't the leaf springs just go over the top of the rear axle rather than under. You would get a lift at point A & C that way too.

My quick answer would be that:

1. You are way over the 1.5 to 2 inches of lift that the torsion bars can realisticly do
2. You are messing with something very complicated with an under vs. over move. I'm not sure this would be something that should be done without some SERIOUS engineering

Besides that... I can't really think of anything. I think that the first point is the key thing here though.

[evldave]

What you want are a simple set of lift shackles. $600 is a lot of money for that. Wrangler owners use them for an easy 2" of lift.

Basically, they extend the rear mounting point of the leaf spring down from it's current position about 3-4" (or however long you want to go - more is riskier because of the forces involved). By lowering the rear of the leaf spring, you lower the tire in relation to the body, thereby raising the body.

One this you must be careful about is pinion angle. By only lowering the rear of the axle, you pivot the pumpkin UP towards the t-case, changing pinion angle - depending on conditions, you may need to shim the rear axle (at point B).

Here's what it will do for clearance (imho). The height of the pumpkin is determined by the tire height, the height of the body (and undercarraige) is determined by tire + suspension. By lifting the rear of the leaf pack, you will gain a small amount (maybe .5-1") near the front of the vehicle, but you will gain ~1-1.5" at the rear bumper. This would be very good for rock clearance on your departure angle, but shackles won't help approach (and if you raise the rear of the truck, it might hurt, relatively speaking, your approach angles).

I was at the dealer yesterday looking at the rancho lift. They have a set of long shackles in the back, maybe 4". I didn't look in the front to see if they used a hanger extension (my jeep lift had that). If you also had a hanger extension (for the front of the leaf springs), you wouldn't have pinion angle issues.



If you want to go better, get a set of revolver shackles. These are a two-piece lift shackle, that is folded in half in normal operation. When the wheel starts to drop, the shackles actually 'opens' and allows the rear axle to drop more than the leaf springs will allow. This helps on rocks to keep one extra wheel on the ground. I did a quickie google search and couldn't find any revolver shackles for the H3.

[HummBebe]

Originally Posted by Ipedog

Okay Bebe's

In this pic you see what I'm calling the hanger. Its triangular in shape and welded to the frame. Call this point A



In these next two pics you see where the rear axel is attached to the leaf spring. Where the upside down U shaped bolts attach the leaf spring to the axel is point B

In this pic you can see the hanger A in the left of the pic.



In the this pic you can see the shackle C in the right of the pic.




In this pic you see the OEM shackle. Its about 2.3 to 3" long and is where the leaf spring attaches at end (bumper) of the truck. Call this point C


Does this make it any clearer Bebe?

CRYSTAL
Thanks!!

[HummBebe]

Learning makes me all giggly

[evldave]

http://www.oly4x4.com/teraflex.htm

Scroll halfway down, you'll see a $70 set of shackles for an XJ (Jeep Cherokee). Super cheap way of lifting the rear of your vehicle. I'd bet you can get a reputable fab shop to do the same for $100.

Watch out for buginess, though. If you crank the t-bars and also lift the rear, you're going to end up with the same 'Present thyself' stance w/the azz end up in the air - great for rear clearance, but looks funny.

[allan p]

xterra owners have referred to such lift as the "Poor Man's Lift" or PML for some time. You can buy a set of these for a whopping 5o bux and lift the ass end an inch and a half to counter the front's torsion bar crank.

a l l a n

[thunderbry]

I've just been reading all of these ideas which i think are great and will work fine. But im thinking an even easier way to do this is to measure shock length and buy a simple set of air shox from your neighborhood auto zone then you could just lift the vehicle when needed as apposed to driving around with the back in the air all of the time. I had a ZR2 Chevy blazer which we have all seen with the back ends sagging to the ground and did this and it was awsome especially if you ever trailer with the vehicle you can just pump up the shox until you level it out. And it will give us all something to use those trick onboard air compressors for. I think the set of shox i bought were around $50.00. Just a thought

[wpage]

Wonder how far you could go B4 the need for extending hoses etc would be required without damage? Looking at the rear the distance from ground to universal gearcase is about 9" with stock/standard tires. If shackels were extended one inch at "C" It would have no effect there. Only raise body. This is unlike torsion bar tightening effect which effects both elements in front.
This would appear to solve the sag issue on the surface. However underneath the rear would still be low...

[Desert Dan]

I am still looking for rear spring u-bolt skid plate/sliders. Has anyone seen them? I have only seen them on th AM Star web site

A spring perch slider would be good too.


Does anyone know what spring and suspension set up they use on the Rod Hall stock class H3 race truck??

[Ipedog]

Originally Posted by wpage

Wonder how far you could go B4 the need for extending hoses etc would be required without damage? Looking at the rear the distance from ground to universal gearcase is about 9" with stock/standard tires. If shackels were extended one inch at "C" It would have no effect there. Only raise body. This is unlike torsion bar tightening effect which effects both elements in front.
This would appear to solve the sag issue on the surface. However underneath the rear would still be low...

You're right. Point B, the axel, and the dif in the center are static in height to the ground. The only way to increase this distance is via larger tires, which many of us have done (315's or 35's).

The ultimate point of this exercise is to gain height at point A. So if a 3" longer shackle would yeild 1" to 1.5" to 2" at point A then that seems a perfect thing.

[HummBebe]

You are so smart

Let's get some longer shackels made....who do we know here that can do that for us???

[Ipedog]

Originally Posted by HummBebe

You are so smart

Let's get some longer shackels made....who do we know here that can do that for us???

Aww Bebes - you're gonna make me blush!

I just got off the phone with Chad Hall and had an opportunity to speak with him about the H3 race truck and what he thought would be best for our situation.

It turns out that they run the race H3 with the following mods: V8 torsion bars (from the upcoming V8 model), a 1" body lift, 35's, and heavy duty Rod Hall shocks w/remote resovoirs. Thats it according to Chad.

When I told him what we did (Paragon, Rubicon, Moab), and what we wanted (More ground clearance), Chad seemed to think that shackles and a t-bar crank made the most sense, performance wise first and $$$ wise second. Another option to do as a second stage after the shackles would be to have the springs re-bent to add more lift. This is somthing that most spring shops are able to do according to Chad.

I am contacting one of my TTORA friends to see of they can help me fab up a set. If someone from the Forum can fab these up and is interested in helping out that would be a plus! From this conversation with Chad it seems we are on the right track.

Oh, he also said he was NOT impressed with the lift kit currently available for the H3 saying it is not made for off road use. Interesting...

[HummBebe]

Originally Posted by Ipedog

Aww Bebes - you're gonna make me blush!

I just got off the phone with Chad Hall and had an opportunity to speak with him about the H3 race truck and what he thought would be best for our situation.

It turns out that they run the race H3 with the following mods: V8 torsion bars (from the upcoming V8 model), a 1" body lift, 35's, and heavy duty Rod Hall shocks w/remote resovoirs. Thats it according to Chad.

When I told him what we did (Paragon, Rubicon, Moab), and what we wanted (More ground clearance), Chad seemed to think that shackles and a t-bar crank made the most sense, performance wise first and $$$ wise second. Another option to do as a second stage after the shackles would be to have the springs re-bent to add more lift. This is somthing that most spring shops are able to do according to Chad.

I am contacting one of my TTORA friends to see of they can help me fab up a set. If someone from the Forum can fab these up and is interested in helping out that would be a plus! From this conversation with Chad it seems we are on the right track.

Oh, he also said he was NOT impressed with the lift kit currently available for the H3 saying it is not made for off road use. Interesting...

Same here, been told by several people not to lift the truck. I'm so glad he agrees. Awesome Job Rob!!! (hey that rhymes)

[HummBebe]

Can someone explain the difference between a Suspension lift and a Body Lift???

And under what circumstances would you do one vs. the other?

[cestwick]

Originally Posted by HummBebe

You are so smart

Let's get some longer shackels made....who do we know here that can do that for us???

I made a pair of extended shackles for mine this weekend. Took all of about an hour to make and install. I will take a few pics to night and post.