Rear Brake/Axle Groan...

[fourfourto]

Who had it repaired to their satisfaction. The problem is no one got it fixed.There saying there is no fix they cant do nothing.
Thats why Im trying to get help from a MIA fild rep.

[HummBebe]

f5

In this post you said the tech said it was coming from the brakes. They obviously have no idea. But it is their job to figure it out.

http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/s...8&postcount=49

The Field Rep is avoiding you. Plain and simple. Or, someone has not been honest with you and actually contacted him.

Just tell them you want it fixed, now, please.

That's why an attorney would help. They know the laws and can blither blather the demand for satifaction or else. Because they identified it as the brakes, you could be in a potentially dangerous situation blah blah blah.

Squeaky wheel get the grease. Get assertive. I would never wait more than 24 hours for a call back.

I make my priority list the Harvard way every day. So do they. If you are not getting a call back, you are not making the list. If you are not making the list, they don't even know you exist.

[fourfourto]

I beleve F5 problem was not the same. UU

It has to be the brakes they replaced the pads and cut rotors at 12,000 miles noise came back 6,000 miles later.I now have 22,000 on it.

Im trying for new rotors/pads but they wont authorize it without the field rep.
I dont know what the f*cks going on

I got to see what the serv manager says tommorow.

[HummBebe]

Tell him the Queen of the 3bies said to QUIT FAWKING OFF

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by fourfourto

I beleve F5 problem was not the same. UU

It has to be the brakes they replaced the pads and cut rotors at 12,000 miles noise came back 6,000 miles later.I now have 22,000 on it.

Im trying for new rotors/pads but they wont authorize it without the field rep.
I dont know what the f*cks going on

I got to see what the serv manager says tommorow.

My biggest problem with this entire scenario (other than GM not getting the field rep out) is that there is no problem with the rear brakes that appears anywhere on warranty reports. These are not new style brakes, they have been around for many years. Rear pads, even on a large H3, should last for many moons (at least 50K). Rear brakes only do about 20% of the work when braking and going forward, unless a person does nothing but panic stops.

My noise at first was diagnosed as rear brakes. They raised the vehicle and disassembled the brakes and found no relation to the noise. They then went after the drivetrain, discovered the noise in the t/case, replaced it, and no more noise.

I can't sit here in my recliner and say it is definitely the brakes, or the t/case. I just know my sounds were similar to your sounds.

On the other hand, I still agree with Bebe. It has gone on too long now, and someone has to step forward and discover exactly what the problem is and fix it. If that takes an attorney to write a letter, or an appointment with an arbitrator, go for it. It appears, even on this site, there are only a few with this problem.

[fourfourto]

I finally get a call on tuesday from the CS manager from Gm,she took over the file and said she was sorry for any delays reaching the field rep (since 10/22/06)She said I will get something done by the end of the week.
Today I get a call from the dealer sevice manager saying I have a appointment with the field rep on 01/05/07 at 10:30 Am.

Hopefully he finds the problem and authorizes a fix.

[RubHer Yellow Ducky]

Originally Posted by fourfourto

I finally get a call on tuesday from the CS manager from Gm,she took over the file and said she was sorry for any delays reaching the field rep (since 10/22/06)She said I will get something done by the end of the week.
Today I get a call from the dealer sevice manager saying I have a appointment with the field rep on 01/05/07 at 10:30 Am.

Hopefully he finds the problem and authorizes a fix.

Please keep us informed. I'm getting close to 12000 miles and the BRAKE GROAN is still in my YELLOW H-3 but not the GRAY H-3.

RYD

[fourfourto]

Mine originaly started around 12,000 miles.
YRD Did your dealer look at it yet?
New brakes and cutting rotors is only temporary fix.
Im hoping they will replace the rotors and brakes or whatever has to be done to fix it properly.

[Hmmm2]

fourfourto, you're not going to believe this, but my grinding/groan sound has gone away. I have made a couple of hard, fast stops recently going downhill as someone tried to cut me off .. and noooooo groan. In my own mind, it's almost like the pads 'reset' themselves. Remember .. the last dealer told me they cut the pads in a diamond shape?? I keep thinking it's going to come back. Can't wait to hear what you find out about your on Jan. 5th! Don't forget to post whatever you find out.

[fourfourto]

I give you a week before you post its back


Funny I was thinking the noise would stop at some point before Jan 5th. Dont jinks me ,hopefully I can do the driving( DEATH RIDE) so I will give him the full effect of the GRrrr Grr grr.

[JV1]

I have been reading this thread for a long time now and feel it's time to jump in. We have had our H3 for over a year now (13,000 miles) and almost from the beginning the rear brakes have made the groaning noise. Seems that the RR is the worst. Wife and kids have been disgusted that I "won't take it in and get it fixed". I have never had any luck with any GM dealer being able to fix anything other than a part that was physically broken in half or a car that wasn't running. The last thing I want is to have my expensive OEM rotors turned down as a temporary fix.

My mechanical engineering background tells me the brakes aren't going to fail, they just have a systemic design flaw. I keep hearing people tied to GM stating that rear brake "groan" is inherent in the H3. That may be correct. Another correct statement is that rear brake "groan" is NOT inherent in a quality designed and manufactured vehicle. How many cars have rear brake groan? None of the fifty or so cars that I have driven in my life.

I understand the fact that these brakes were taken off some other vehicle where they performed flawlessly. I work in a high tech field where engineers do that all the time. They take a component, assembly, or system and use it on another model of the product we design and manufacture. More often than not the component, assembly, or system does not perform as it did on the original model. Why? Because the operating parameters are not the same. The temperature of the product is not the same, the RPM's are different, vibrations, oscillations, natural frequencies all are different. This would appear to be the case with the H3.

Based on what I have observed, I believe there is a problem with the front to rear balance valve (or however they get the F/R balance). The H3 literature states that the braking system is designed so that the nose does not "dive" when the brakes are applied. In my opinion the nose still dives and I see no difference from other vehicles. It seems to me that when you brake lightly, there is no rear brake action and therefore no groan. When you do medium to hard braking, there is limited force applied to the discs and therefore they grab and release, grab and release, grab and release, which gives the groaning noise.

With all these complaints, GM engineers should get off their butts and figure out what the problem is. However, if they can't fix some plastic marker lights in a year and a half, I guess there's no hope for a brake groan problem.....

[marin8703]

Originally Posted by JV1

I have been reading this thread for a long time now and feel it's time to jump in. We have had our H3 for over a year now (13,000 miles) and almost from the beginning the rear brakes have made the groaning noise. Seems that the RR is the worst. Wife and kids have been disgusted that I "won't take it in and get it fixed". I have never had any luck with any GM dealer being able to fix anything other than a part that was physically broken in half or a car that wasn't running. The last thing I want is to have my expensive OEM rotors turned down as a temporary fix.

My mechanical engineering background tells me the brakes aren't going to fail, they just have a systemic design flaw. I keep hearing people tied to GM stating that rear brake "groan" is inherent in the H3. That may be correct. Another correct statement is that rear brake "groan" is NOT inherent in a quality designed and manufactured vehicle. How many cars have rear brake groan? None of the fifty or so cars that I have driven in my life.

I understand the fact that these brakes were taken off some other vehicle where they performed flawlessly. I work in a high tech field where engineers do that all the time. They take a component, assembly, or system and use it on another model of the product we design and manufacture. More often than not the component, assembly, or system does not perform as it did on the original model. Why? Because the operating parameters are not the same. The temperature of the product is not the same, the RPM's are different, vibrations, oscillations, natural frequencies all are different. This would appear to be the case with the H3.

Based on what I have observed, I believe there is a problem with the front to rear balance valve (or however they get the F/R balance). The H3 literature states that the braking system is designed so that the nose does not "dive" when the brakes are applied. In my opinion the nose still dives and I see no difference from other vehicles. It seems to me that when you brake lightly, there is no rear brake action and therefore no groan. When you do medium to hard braking, there is limited force applied to the discs and therefore they grab and release, grab and release, grab and release, which gives the groaning noise.

With all these complaints, GM engineers should get off their butts and figure out what the problem is. However, if they can't fix some plastic marker lights in a year and a half, I guess there's no hope for a brake groan problem.....

, that was a good read.

[Hmmm2]

fourfourto, this is good info. After you hear what the Hummer field rep has to tell you on Jan.5, maybe you could give him JV1's thoughts, too. I think it's ridiculous for the dealers to say, "Yeah we hear it, but it must be something inherent to the H3." What?! Would we have bought it while hearing that awful sound during a test drive? Of course not. So why do we have to live with it now? I went through an awful time with the dealer last Spring/Summer. No one should have to spend that much time at a dealership with a new vehicle. THANKFULLY ... the groan has taken a hiatus (for some reason), though I cringe everytime I come to a stop .. anticipating that grind/groan sound. Good luck, fourfourto. I hope you find something out that can help us all out, too!

[fourfourto]

good info from JV1
I will mention the proportionary valve to them friday(I dont think they like my input) Not sure how to check.

It also doesnt explain how it goes away after rotors are cut and new pads installed.
The service guy would like to replace rotors and pads he just needs an ok from hummer.
Im not 100% sure that will permentaly fix the problem,Ill see on friday.

Jv1 does your noise sound like my sound files?

Hmmm3 your noise went away or you just not listening

If a H3 driven by a deaf person comes to a stop with no one around does it make a noise ?

F5 any input on the poportionary valve ?

[Hmmm2]

Originally Posted by fourfourto

:Hmmm3 your noise went away or you just not listening

LOL .. good try, fourfourto! I watch my H3 like a hawk ...nothing passes my ears or eyes when it comes to sounds, creaks, peeling A pillar mouldings, clear-coat missing from my hood, engine misfiring, stabili-trak probs, ...etc., etc. I've had a number of things wrong with my H3. Sometimes it had gotten to the point where I'd be the 3 with my son .. coming to a red light .. and I'd turn off the XM abruptly. My son would yell, "You did that just as the good part of the song was coming on!" I'd say, "Sorry, I had to listen to hear if the groan was coming back." As I had mentioned, I had heard it come back once .. sometime in September, I think. Then, not again. I would not only HEAR it, I could FEEL it in the brake pedal. It was very bad .. just about as bad as yours. I'm amazed that more people don't have the problem.

[f5fstop]

Just a note: The H3 has dynamic rear proportioning via the circuitry of the EBTCM and the lines to the front and rear brake calipers. If marketing says it will prevent the front end from diving, they are incorrect, and should be hung at dawn. Even, with NO front brakes, a sudden apply of the brakes will cause the front end of any vehicle to nosedive...something about physics.
The dynamic proportioning circuitry primarily takes effect during extremely heavy braking; a lot heavier than I hear here about the groaning noise. A lot heavier than my groaning noise that went away with a new t/case.

[fourfourto]

F5 didnt they have anti pitch /dive on the 95 to 99 Buick Riviera.
I noticed on the one I had (Great car 3.8 supercharged ahead of its time )it had a fitting on the struts to lock/dampen them during hard braking or acceleration.

[JV1]

From the H3 website:

DYNAMIC REAR PROPORTIONING
"Another integral part of this intelligent braking system is Dynamic Rear Brake Proportioning. This system modulates rear brake pressure and ensures that braking is balanced between the front and rear brakes. In English, that means that the nose of the H3 won't dive down while braking hard. And in any language, that means your passengers might not even notice what happened."

LOL - I guess they also have some other physics defying system. When the driver slams on the brakes, the nose locks so it doesn't dive and the passengers are held to their seats by a star wars invisible force field??? Who allows these people to write this stuff?

Fourfourto:
I listened to your sound files. I don't believe our H3 sounds the same but then again I've never stuck my head out the rear window to listen. Maybe I'll try it soon. With a noise as loud as yours it would seem that the mechanics ears would readily identify the major component that is generating the noise.

[Hmmm2]

Originally Posted by JV1

From the H3 website:

DYNAMIC REAR PROPORTIONING
"Another integral part of this intelligent braking system is Dynamic Rear Brake Proportioning. This system modulates rear brake pressure and ensures that braking is balanced between the front and rear brakes. In English, that means that the nose of the H3 won't dive down while braking hard. And in any language, that means your passengers might not even notice what happened."

LOL - I guess they also have some other physics defying system. When the driver slams on the brakes, the nose locks so it doesn't dive and the passengers are held to their seats by a star wars invisible force field??? Who allows these people to write this stuff?

Fourfourto:
I listened to your sound files. I don't believe our H3 sounds the same but then again I've never stuck my head out the rear window to listen. Maybe I'll try it soon. With a noise as loud as yours it would seem that the mechanics ears would readily identify the major component that is generating the noise.

[Desert Dan]

Mine does a nose dive under hard braking but I think it is the shocks.



Toyota 4x4 trucks have a mechanical proportioning valve that reduces rear brake pressure under hard braking or light loads.