Stupid Cop

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by CO Hummer

No way, never. I am not required to respect the law. I am only required to obey it. There is a huge difference. Likewise, I am not required to respect any officer, only obey him so far as he acts within his legal authority. If I can flip off an everyday Joe for driving like and idiot, I can flip off a police officer for doing the same. They can earn my respect, and they will get it. But it is NOT something that anyone can demand, just based on a voluntary decision to take a paid civil service job.

respect and obey, is the same thing. To disrespect law is the same as to ignore it. I am not saying that's what you meant, but that is what I meant when I say respect.

To respect a LEO and the Law has nothing to do with the individual officer. It is your duty as a citizen to abide by the laws of the land and respect those laws as you are required to do to live within that land.

You are, indeed, required to respect law. If you do not, you pay the price with your freedom. The definition of respect as used here is not to hold a person in regard, but the acknowledgement of that that exists... the law.

I'm not sure why you have such disdain for civil service. You turn the fact that someone that volunteers for crappy pay on job where they are highly likely to get killed by the scum of our society would be somehow less than the same if said person was forced into that same job.

The very fact that these individual DO volunteer to do this should garner a little respect and I can't fathom why it's such a stretch to do so.

[CO Hummer]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

I'm not sure why you have such disdain for civil service. You turn the fact that someone that volunteers for crappy pay on job where they are highly likely to get killed by the scum of our society would be somehow less than the same if said person was forced into that same job.

The very fact that these individual DO volunteer to do this should garner a little respect and I can't fathom why it's such a stretch to do so.

If you think I have a disdain for civil service, then you haven't been reading what I've written. This sounds like an emotional response to my posts. Whether I "care about" or "disdain" civil servants is completely irrelavant to the discussion. The fact that a person is NOT required to do the job means a lot. He can be admired, and respected. But it is not a requirement, nor does anyone inherently "deserve" respect. To determine whether someone "deserves" respect is based on ethics. You can't arbitrarily blend ethics into the discussion.

I do, in fact, respect those officers that take the position to truly serve the public. For those that don't (ie. just treating it as a job, and nothing more) I simply have no extra respect or disrespect.

[RuggedH2]

What we see, depends largely on where we stand. I don't know where you formed your opinions about police.

You don't have to respect a judge either, (and I've had several that I have disagreed with) but, they have never witnessed any disrespect from me.

They know facts that are unknown to others, and make decisions that in light of those facts, I have disagreed with. If I were to act that with the same level of disrespect to that judge as some members of the public have acted with me, I would not only be fired, but would be rotting with the other "Protective Custody" inmates in jail.

I realize my job is different, I don't expect respect. I do think it's funny though when some arrested person who has been acting completely out of there minds while dealing with the police, gets to the jail. Corrections guys don't take nearly the crap those of us on the street are forced to deal with.

[jdrew]

Originally Posted by 0313H3

Corrections guys don't take nearly the crap those of us on the street are forced to deal with.

I was following you until you said that...


Care to explain?

[RuggedH2]

I don't want to get into a lot of individual circumstances, but one for an example;

I took an intoxicated, fighting badass, multiple felon, - to jail for beating a lady he didn't know, in front of her children. He fought me and several other police officers and spit several times on the way to jail.

At jail intake, during the searching process he spit on the corrections guy and pissed on the wall. They jumped on him, stripped him naked, hog tied him and wiped up the pee with his own clothes. Then hauled him in the back to complete the booking process. It might not be right, but I left smiling.

I'm not trying to act like a cop here. I'm sorry I brought up my occupation now. Here, I am just a guy with an opinion. The title of the thread inspired me to give mine.

[jdrew]

Ok, I deal with that daily from intakes or anyone of the other 500+ inmates..

I'm still trying to figure out why on the street is harder than behind the wall.

I have done both... Behind the wall is an entirely different world than out on the street.

Not trying to offend, but have you worked in a large jail? Want to spend a day with me?

[RuggedH2]

Originally Posted by jdrew

Ok, I deal with that daily from intakes or anyone of the other 500+ inmates..

I'm still trying to figure out why on the street is harder than behind the wall.

I have done both... Behind the wall is an entirely different world than out on the street.

Not trying to offend, but have you worked in a large jail? Want to spend a day with me?

I meant absolutely no disrespect whatsoever!

The whole thing is perception. The public expects to see restraint on the part of the police, they could be shocked by some of what happens routinely in a jail.

I tell stories with my friends, in front of my wife. Sometimes she cringes. When my jail and prison friends tell stories, I cringe.

[usetosellhummer]

Attachment 34279

I respect all in Law

[KenP]

Originally Posted by 0313H3

I'm not trying to act like a cop here. I'm sorry I brought up my occupation now.

Don't be, it's an honorable job.

[-=Mac=-]

Originally Posted by KenP

Don't be, it's an honorable job.

I couldn't agree more but I'm a bit prejudiced...

-Mac

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by CO Hummer

If you think I have a disdain for civil service, then you haven't been reading what I've written. This sounds like an emotional response to my posts.

quite frankly, I have read exactly what you've written. You offer no personal respect to the individual who puts his life on the line for YOUR and your family's well being... that's disdain.

Originally Posted by CO Hummer

Whether I "care about" or "disdain" civil servants is completely irrelavant to the discussion.

No, it's not. It's the basis you are using to argue your point. If you are using an emotional position to provide for argument, then there's really no point as common sense really wouldn't make much sense because you can't argue emotion.

Originally Posted by CO Hummer

The fact that a person is NOT required to do the job means a lot.

care to explain? do you not feel any respect for anyone that served in the Armed Forces either? Someone that wasn't required but chose to do something that could easily cost them their life is still doing the same job as someone forced.

Originally Posted by CO Hummer

He can be admired, and respected. But it is not a requirement, nor does anyone inherently "deserve" respect. To determine whether someone "deserves" respect is based on ethics. You can't arbitrarily blend ethics into the discussion.

I still don't think you understand. Respect for the law is not admiration nor adoration. It is acknowledgement thereof and your civil agreement to abide by it. When a LEO dons his badge he is an extension of that law and as a citizen you are most certainly required to respect him and that law. Not respect as in think he is a really cool guy, but respect as in respect the deadliness of a firearm, respect the danger of rock climbing, respect the forces of nature, etc.

That is the term I originally used and to say you don't have to respect an LEO or the law is the same as saying it's OK to disobey the laws.

I believe that is where much of this is misunderstood. Secondly, it seems you are breaking this down to the personal level and not at the law/legal/pragmatic level. I have no regard for any LEO that abuses the authority offered him by his badge and don't think it provides an excuse for anything but personally respectable behavior.

[CO Hummer]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

care to explain? do you not feel any respect for anyone that served in the Armed Forces either?

THEN.......

Respect for the law is not admiration nor adoration. It is acknowledgement thereof and your civil agreement to abide by it.

Hey man. Look at what you wrote! You ask me if I "feel" any respect, then you call it a behavior. You are right - I'm not necessarily getting what you've been refering to about "respect".

If respect is a feeling - I have admiration and adoration for some, and not for others. Not a big deal, and you are not arguing that.

If respect means to "act legally", then I agree that everyone should do so (presupposing that law is 'good', of course).

But whole tone of offering 'respect' for law officers, military personnel, or whatever has been to the tune of "they deserve more than others based of the risks they take". If respect is simply about obeying the law (as you say), then it's nonsensical to talk about respecting one more than another. You can "obey more" or "act more legally" to someone.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by CO Hummer

Hey man. Look at what you wrote! You ask me if I "feel" any respect, then you call it a behavior. You are right - I'm not necessarily getting what you've been refering to about "respect".

Those two quoted statements were my point.

Originally I said you HAD to respect the legal arm of law, the LEO. As the discussion developed it appeared that your stance, even though it sounds personally disrespectful to those that do serve to protect others, you took it to mean I was saying one had to have PERSONAL respect for the officer, which are 2 completely different things.

Personally, I do respect each and every officer, just as I do each and every service member before and more-so that I respect you as a normal civilian. The very fact that they are volunteering to put their life on the line to protect MY way of life, IMO, deserves that kind of personal respect until they do something to lose it.

Sorry, in all reality they are not volunteering to provide a civil service by collecting my water bill or gather up my garbage. They actually may come close to a deadly incident once a year, may have to draw their weapon on another human being several times in their career and decide if they should pull the trigger or not, play marriage counselor nearly every day, go through a door not knowing what caliber weapon is on the other side, etc.

IMO, until they show that they don't, they deserve respect both personally and as that extension of the law.

[H Duece]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

Sorry, in all reality they are not volunteering to provide a civil service by collecting my water bill or gather up my garbage. They actually may come close to a deadly incident once a year, may have to draw their weapon on another human being several times in their career and decide if they should pull the trigger or not, play marriage counselor nearly every day, go through a door not knowing what caliber weapon is on the other side, etc.

Wow...rare that someone who's not a cop understands a little of what cops go through on a daily basis.

In the 5 years I've been a cop, I've had 2 people try to stab me, 1 person try to shoot me, been in 3 very serious fights, hit by 2 drunk drivers (transported to the hospital both times in an ambulance), tried to save about 10 people, actually saved 2 people, been in 7 vehicle pursuits (won all), been in 13 foot pursuits (won all those too), and have had to put up with a buttload of ****...most recently being punched in the jaw by a drunk driver.

I honestly don't expect a "thank you" from anyone. I chose this job and I truely enjoy doing it...sure beats the hell out of sitting in a cubical 9 hours a day staring at a computer screen. I fully accept the risks that comes with this occupation. The excitement I get doing this job far outweighs the pay I don't get for doing it.

However, I do expect respect...not for me, but for the uniform and badge I wear and what it represents.

[RuggedH2]

Originally Posted by H Duece

Wow...rare that someone who's not a cop understands a little of what cops go through on a daily basis.

However, I do expect respect...not for me, but for the uniform and badge I wear and what it represents.

Well said H Duece. I believe Paragon understands the reasons someone chooses a life in service to his country.

I am also a realist, I've spent twenty years of my life wearing uniforms. First for the Marines, and now as a cop.

Respect is an interesting subject, people say they respect the armed forces, but try getting decent service in a restaurant around Oceanside CA while wearing a high and tight haircut. This might be cause young Marines are not good tippers, but it can be hard to come by.

Respect is easily offered to police by a large percentage of the population, this percentage is usually not the ones going to jail though.

It is an over- simplified generalization but, some people just never drew a decent mother and father when the original deck was dealt. That's my basic opinion of the respect question.