diesel

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Originally Posted by -=Mac=-

The Jeep Liberty is available with a 2.8-liter four-cylinder motor that provides adequate power and 26 mpg with a 4 speed automatic tranny. When I test drove a Liberty, about the only thing which impressed me was the engine and even that was only adequate.

That little 4 banger diesel puts out 295 ft-lbs at 1800 rpm. That's a lot of torque for 2.8 liters !!! It's all on the low end though ... drops off really fast after the peak, but still matches the 3.5L max even at 4000 rpm. Not much HP tho ... peaks at 160 HP.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

That's one good thing about the I-5 ... it has 2 torque peaks in the most used parts of the power band (2600 & 4800 rpm). HP peaks at 5600.

Here's a chart of the 3.5 and 3.7 L engines for comparison with the Liberty's CRD

[-=Mac=-]

Thanks for posting those!! The lack of horsepower explains why the Liberty wasn't much fun on the quick highway run, especially with the auto-tranny but that torque should make it capable for wheeling.

-Mac

[f5fstop]

You can show all the torque charts for every diesel made, make all the wishes you want, but unless the US market changes, the costs of installing a diesel in the H3 for the US/Canadian market is not worthwhile at this time. Someday in the future, it might change, but marketing research shows, diesels are not wanted at this time.

[BEST 4x4xFAR]

Originally Posted by f5fstop

You can show all the torque charts for every diesel made, make all the wishes you want, but unless the US market changes, the costs of installing a diesel in the H3 for the US/Canadian market is not worthwhile at this time. Someday in the future, it might change, but marketing research shows, diesels are not wanted at this time.

Silly MAC, don't you know that as an enthusiasts you make up less than 1% of GMs customers, how many yuppies looking for something intimidating to drive (with a name that they feel gives them prestige) care about the virtues of a diesel? Now these buyers will buy a V8 in a heartbeat, cause everyone "needs" more power you know..

P.S. -- I'm with you MAC, I want a nice turbo diesel under the hood..

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Originally Posted by f5fstop

You can show all the torque charts for every diesel made, make all the wishes you want, but unless the US market changes, the costs of installing a diesel in the H3 for the US/Canadian market is not worthwhile at this time. Someday in the future, it might change, but marketing research shows, diesels are not wanted at this time.

I realize it's all about the marketplace ... but it's fun to talk about

[-=Mac=-]

Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3

I realize it's all about the marketplace ... but it's fun to talk about

Agreed!! As Jeep starts to drop Bluetec engines into their assorted lineup, it'll be interesting to see if the market for diesel powered SUVs develops. The Liberty first, then the Grand Cherokee... rumour has it the Wrangler will be next. I would rather see GM lead than follow...

-Mac

[Huck BB62]

I don't want an inline 5 diesel. I don't want a four banger. I want a six cylinder dmax. It's a GM company, and it wouldn't be that hard. Yeah, the H3 would cost $5k more but all I can say is this: H1 Alpha.

It would make a profound vehicle. I'd sacrifice some of the handling to get the solid axle up front too. You know, that brings this to mind, how cool would it be to have a portal driven front axle with a locker?!? Yeah, that's what I want:

H3 with 6cyl. dmax
6 speed baby Allison
14 bolt rear end with e-locker
Portal driven abbreviated front axle with e-locker
4:1 tcase
35's, stock
Removeable rear seat
Shifter on the column to give me back my console for the ham radio and cup holders

There, that's a long way towards the perfect H3 Alpha.

About there not being a market for the diesel? Yeah, right, if they did it right, they'd sell 'em like hotcakes. They're misidentifying their market. For cryin' out loud, people are putting $1000 ROOF RACKS on their vehicles!

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by Huck BB62

I don't want an inline 5 diesel. I don't want a four banger. I want a six cylinder dmax. It's a GM company, and it wouldn't be that hard.

GM does not, nor has it ever owned Isuzu. It did own somewhere between 7 and 10 percent at one time, but sold all their shares earlier this year. It still has an agreement with Isuzu in regard to the purchase of Isuzu engines, and there is still some agreement with the sale and service of their vehicles (or else those Isuzu vehicles sitting at my work location have been forgotten ).

In fact, I believe Toyota purchased about 5 percent of Isuzu right after GM sold their shares.

[-=Mac=-]

6 cylinder Duramax is an Isuzu motor? Is the engine use arrangement like Cummins with Dodge?

-Mac

Originally Posted by f5fstop

GM does not, nor has it ever owned Isuzu.

[Huck BB62]

Duramax is made in Ohio, by folks like you and I. Things I don't know would fill an encyclopedia, but the internet is helpful....

1971GM signed a capital agreement with Isuzu.1972KB pickup trucks first shipped to the U.S.A. under the Chevrolet LUV name.1974Gemini, the first car jointly developed with GM under the world-car concept, was introduced in the Japanese market.1983GM and Isuzu established GM Egypt jointly with local investors.1984Shipment of Gemini R-Car (Chevrolet Spectrum) commenced.1987IBC Vehicles Ltd. was set up to manufacture commercial vehicles in the U.K. as a joint venture between GM and Isuzu.1989GM and Isuzu jointly established Isuzu-General Motors Australia Ltd. to import, assemble and market Isuzu vehicles in Australia.1994Production of NPR gasoline powered trucks started at the GM Janesville Plant in Wisconsin.1995Production of Hombre pickups jointly developed with GM for U.S. market started at the GM Shreveport Plant in Louisiana.1996Production of medium-duty trucks with Isuzu cabs started at the GM Janesville Plant.1997Isuzu Motors Polska Sp. z o.o. was established in Poland to assemble diesel engines for Adam Opel AG in Germany.
Isuzu Thailand started the OEM supply of Isuzu TFR pickups to GM Thailand.1998In the U.S.A., DMAX, Ltd. was set up jointly by Isuzu and GM to manufacture diesel engines.1999GM raised its share of equity in Isuzu to 49.0% from 37.5%.2000Production of 6.6-liter direct-injection diesel started at DMAX, Ltd.
GM and Isuzu jointly established General Motors Isuzu Commercial Truck, LLC for sales and marketing of GM/Isuzu commercial vehicles in the U.S.A.2001GM and Isuzu agreed to start consigned-basis production of Isuzu one-ton pickups at GM Thailand.2002All-new Isuzu one-ton pickups, jointly developed by GM and Isuzu, debuted in Thai market as "Isuzu D-Max."2003GM's share of Isuzu's capital was altered from 49% to 12%.
Isuzu and GM established a new joint venture company called GMI Diesel Engineering Ltd. (GMIDEL) for powertrain systems.
Production of 1-ton pickup truck for general export started at GM Thailand.2004Supply of CKD to GM India for multi-purpose vehicle started.

The DMAX venture is 60 percent owned by Isuzu Motors and 40 percent owned by General Motors and involves an investment of $320 million in this engine launch. Though no technical details have been released, the new 6.6 L engine is said to offer significant improvements in performance characteristics, fuel economy and emissions over the current GM diesel.

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by Huck BB62

Duramax is made in Ohio, by folks like you and I. Things I don't know would fill an encyclopedia, but the internet is helpful....

1971GM signed a capital agreement with Isuzu.1972KB pickup trucks first shipped to the U.S.A. under the Chevrolet LUV name.1974Gemini, the first car jointly developed with GM under the world-car concept, was introduced in the Japanese market.1983GM and Isuzu established GM Egypt jointly with local investors.1984Shipment of Gemini R-Car (Chevrolet Spectrum) commenced.1987IBC Vehicles Ltd. was set up to manufacture commercial vehicles in the U.K. as a joint venture between GM and Isuzu.1989GM and Isuzu jointly established Isuzu-General Motors Australia Ltd. to import, assemble and market Isuzu vehicles in Australia.1994Production of NPR gasoline powered trucks started at the GM Janesville Plant in Wisconsin.1995Production of Hombre pickups jointly developed with GM for U.S. market started at the GM Shreveport Plant in Louisiana.1996Production of medium-duty trucks with Isuzu cabs started at the GM Janesville Plant.1997Isuzu Motors Polska Sp. z o.o. was established in Poland to assemble diesel engines for Adam Opel AG in Germany.
Isuzu Thailand started the OEM supply of Isuzu TFR pickups to GM Thailand.1998In the U.S.A., DMAX, Ltd. was set up jointly by Isuzu and GM to manufacture diesel engines.1999GM raised its share of equity in Isuzu to 49.0% from 37.5%.2000Production of 6.6-liter direct-injection diesel started at DMAX, Ltd.
GM and Isuzu jointly established General Motors Isuzu Commercial Truck, LLC for sales and marketing of GM/Isuzu commercial vehicles in the U.S.A.2001GM and Isuzu agreed to start consigned-basis production of Isuzu one-ton pickups at GM Thailand.2002All-new Isuzu one-ton pickups, jointly developed by GM and Isuzu, debuted in Thai market as "Isuzu D-Max."2003GM's share of Isuzu's capital was altered from 49% to 12%.
Isuzu and GM established a new joint venture company called GMI Diesel Engineering Ltd. (GMIDEL) for powertrain systems.
Production of 1-ton pickup truck for general export started at GM Thailand.2004Supply of CKD to GM India for multi-purpose vehicle started.

The DMAX venture is 60 percent owned by Isuzu Motors and 40 percent owned by General Motors and involves an investment of $320 million in this engine launch. Though no technical details have been released, the new 6.6 L engine is said to offer significant improvements in performance characteristics, fuel economy and emissions over the current GM diesel.

That's nice that you know so much about DMAX, but your original statement was incorrect:
"Originally Posted by Huck BB62
I don't want an inline 5 diesel. I don't want a four banger. I want a six cylinder dmax. It's a GM company, and it wouldn't be that hard."

There is a quite a difference between a "joint venture" and a company that GM "owns." GM had a joint venture with Toyota too, does that mean GM owned Toyota.
Now, continue to dream on about a GM diesel in a H3, since you have probably sepent a day googling Isuzu and GM, I just spent two minutes on the future production charts for GM vehicles (to make sure nothing changed in the last week) and guess what....NO diesel for the H3.

I can google too:
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GM sells Isuzu shares for $300 million
Long expected, GM just anounced that they were selling off their Isuzu shares.

Snippet: TOKYO -- Cash-strapped General Motors Corp. is selling the shares it holds in truckmaker Isuzu to two Japanese trading companies and a bank for about $300 million to fund its turnaround in North America, the U.S. automaker said Tuesday.

Disposing of the Isuzu stake marks the latest retreat for a company besieged by staggering losses, labor problems and mounting competition from Asian automakers. The move also highlights GM's rapid pullout from Japanese partnerships it has built since the 1970s.
GM said last month that it was selling the 7.9 percent stake it held in Isuzu Motors Ltd., or about 90 million shares, but will keep its business partnership with Isuzu, such as joint development and manufacturing of trucks and diesel engines.

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Toyota-Isuzu alliance

Toyota and Isuzu have signed a memorandum of understanding stating they will start studying the synergic effects of business collaboration.

Not sure where this might lead, as it seems to me that Isuzu, from a product standpoint, offers pretty much the same types of offerings as does Toyota. In any event this is good news for Isuzu I would think, as on the surface, this appears to be more of a benefit for them than for Toyota.

Here's a news update: Toyota buys 5.9% of Isuzu.
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GM also has an agreement in place with Fiat to purchase some of their smaller diesels for use in small vehicles and trucks. This was left over from the recent buyout GM performed to get out of purchasing Fiat.

GM is also working on their own diesels that will meet ALL us state emissions regulations, and they are working on this issue without Isuzu. Go back in time, and GM at one time made some of the best truck diesels in the world....Detroit Diesel Allison.
(GM was also responsible for killing the diesel market in the US with the infamous small truck diesel in the 70s that was a POS.

Now, I'm done talking about diesels and I'll let all you guys who want diesels to either dream on, or purchase a Jeep. For some, it might be the best thing that could happen (for you and the forum).