Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .

[tomp]

Originally Posted by ChevyHighPerformance

"I'd like to know exactly what changes are done to the base map. Spill it all out. I train Harley Davidson techs on fuel injection tuning in my spare time, so I understand maps etc."

Why would a tuning company divulge what numbers they change on every tables? How does this make for good business sense?

"If you are not tuning on a dyno and have no dyno maps for the H3, then you are telling me you are winging it and probably doing nothing more that bumping up the timing or slightly modifying someone elses canned maps."

Actually, most real tuners (like LPE) tune so far on the dyno then finalize it on the track/street/strip. The problem is that the inertial dynos (and some other dynos) don't load down the vehicle (or motorcycle) as it is actaully loaded on the road. How do you account for the various riders' heights/frontal areas when loading down the bike when dyno tuning to get the proper aerodynamic drag for proper drivetrain loading? Yeah, that's what I thought.

"Sounds to me as if you guys are paying half as much for a hand held programmer and only getting a single map and no hand-held programmer. On top of that you have to deal with this loaner ECM crap. THen do it each time you want to make a change? How is this a good deal, I'd like to know?"

A Hypertech handheld or Jet performance piggyback isn't going to get you to the customization of a personal tune.

"You guys are paying this turd a rediculous amount of money for hardly nothing. He bought the tuning software, makes a 10 second change and charges you how much?"

Do you know these people? Have you done any research? So far I have not seen any complaints about PCMforLess on here, other H3 forums, and colorado/canyon forums.

"I tell you what, I will do what he's doing and 10 times better for less money. I will take my wifes H3 down to the dyno and custom tune every cell in the map (which I gurantee this turd does not do!) and completely blow his maps away and have the dyno results to prove it."

Shut up and do it. Post all of your table changes. Strap your wife's H3 on to your motorcycle dyno and see what happens. (pssst don't stand in front of the H3) Some simple questions:

1) What load are you going to place on the wheels for each cell?
2) How many VE tables does the H3 use?
3) The programming has a table that adjusts timing for different intake air temperatures. Is your dyno in an evironmentally controlled room so that you can tune every cell in the map for every possible intake temperature from -40 to 248 F (since this is the table range).
4) The programming has a table that adjusts timing for engine coolant temperatures. Do you have a coolant heater/cooler to adjust water temperature (over -4 to 284 F - since this is the table range) so that you can tune every cell in the map.

How are you going to do 10 times better? How do you meaure the improvement - horsepower gain? So, if PCMforLess produces 15 HP gain you are going to produce a 150 horsepower gain?

"Bottom line, if he's not dyno tuning every single vehicle, then you are getting a "canned" map and not custom tuned for your vehicle. Do yourself a favor and just by a hand-held programmer. they are very easy to use. If you want more than that, get the custom mapping done on a dyno."

Why would you pay twice as much for a canned map from a hand-held programmer?

-I never asked for the exact numbers
-It's called a "Load Controlled Dyno" since you don't know
-Exactly wht I referred to a custom tune on a dyno my unknowing friend
-Don't need to know them, just know what they are charging and not doing a thorough tune on top of that. Simply they are making changes by loading canned maps and no personalization is done in the form of a custom tune.
-I have access to auto & bike load-controlled dynos and even 4-wheel drive dyno with load control
-A map can be 10 times better because there is more than just wide open throttle increases. There are variations in VE, (MAP) Manifold Absolute Pressure, throttle position, timing, engine temp, outside temp, etc. There are thousands of different combinations and variances in these different cells, so there can be much more than a 10x improvement/comparison.
-Yes, the Dyno rooms are temp controlled, exhaust evacuation, and forced air provided for cooling. Each Cylinder is also probed and can be tuned independently if you want to get extreme.

And your post is nothing more than a desperate attempt....LOL

[Gottmud]

[ChevyHighPerformance]

Originally Posted by tomp

-I never asked for the exact numbers
-It's called a "Load Controlled Dyno" since you don't know
-Exactly wht I referred to a custom tune on a dyno my unknowing friend
-Don't need to know them, just know what they are charging and not doing a thorough tune on top of that. Simply they are making changes by loading canned maps and no personalization is done in the form of a custom tune.
-I have access to auto & bike load-controlled dynos and even 4-wheel drive dyno with load control
-A map can be 10 times better because there is more than just wide open throttle increases. There are variations in VE, (MAP) Manifold Absolute Pressure, throttle position, timing, engine temp, outside temp, etc. There are thousands of different combinations and variances in these different cells, so there can be much more than a 10x improvement/comparison.
-Yes, the Dyno rooms are temp controlled, exhaust evacuation, and forced air provided for cooling. Each Cylinder is also probed and can be tuned independently if you want to get extreme.

And your post is nothing more than a desperate attempt....LOL

You have all this technology and knowledge at your fingertips and you want to know - "I'd like to know exactly what changes are done to the base map. Spill it all out." Why would you want to know what an inferior turd company is doing if you can do it ten times better.

All in the same post: First, you want to know exactly what they are changing. Then, you call them a turd company. Finally, you say you can do it ten times better.

Sounds like you are on the foreskin of technology and really don't need anyone's help.

[tomp]

Originally Posted by ChevyHighPerformance

You have all this technology and knowledge at your fingertips and you want to know - "I'd like to know exactly what changes are done to the base map. Spill it all out." Why would you want to know what an inferior turd company is doing if you can do it ten times better.

All in the same post: First, you want to know exactly what they are changing. Then, you call them a turd company. Finally, you say you can do it ten times better.

Sounds like you are on the foreskin of technology and really don't need anyone's help.

Hey Bro, sorry if made the original post with steam in it. I was just looking out for the other members. I have a bad habit of jumping into something whenever I see people selling something on a forum and over charging for it. I didn't mean to cause any problems.

Bottom line though....the members would be better off to get a custom tune as every engine is different and modifying different cells affects each engine differently. They would also be better off in the long run if they were to make other mods such as tire height changes etc, to just get a hand-held.

In all fairness, he is charging as much as a Windows operating system and not doing any programming or tuning. A fair price for what he is doing is about $40-50 and that's it.

Again, sorry I started off wrong.....

Originally Posted by tomp

Bottom line though....the members would be better off to get a custom tune as every engine is different and modifying different cells affects each engine differently. They would also be better off in the long run if they were to make other mods such as tire height changes etc, to just get a hand-held.

In all fairness, he is charging as much as a Windows operating system and not doing any programming or tuning. A fair price for what he is doing is about $40-50 and that's it.

It never ceases to amaze me the nerve some people have to slander a product they have not even tried.

Who are YOU to try and dictate what I should charge for my work?

Let's look at this rationally. I am an H3 person and I want a tune for my truck. I'm looking for a tune, but gee, there's not really a whole lot out there, and those who do offer tuning few and far between for my truck want almost $499 for a tune. I could always buy a jet chip for about $300 though - but that doesn't do squat. And you want to talk about generic? One size jet chip fits all. Hmm, not going to cut it.

So what if a person decides to do it themselves. They plunk down $500 for an individual HPtuners software license that looks greek to 95% of people out there. Or even if they do know what's going on - they don't have the years and years of experience tuning all GM vehicles like we have.

Suddenly, our prices are starting to sound better and better. When you factor in customer service, the ability to borrow a PCM if need be, the years of experience - you see our prices are a value. If you can't see that, you obviously haven't been shopping around.

My prices are incredibly affordable for what you are getting. This isn't just changing one map, as much as you would like to believe. This is an ENTIRE custom tune tailored to your vehicle. On each tune I make around 50-60 changes impacting engine, transmission, speedometer, etc etc.

I won't even get into what it costs me to make this happen - you don't want to know my margin of profit after I've paid for the vehicle licensing, equipment, advertising, PCM's, research and development, shipping supplies, oh how the list goes on.

[tomp]

Originally Posted by keliente

It never ceases to amaze me the nerve some people have to slander a product they have not even tried.

Who are YOU to try and dictate what I should charge for my work?

Let's look at this rationally. I am an H3 person and I want a tune for my truck. I'm looking for a tune, but gee, there's not really a whole lot out there, and those who do offer tuning few and far between for my truck want almost $499 for a tune. I could always buy a jet chip for about $300 though - but that doesn't do squat. And you want to talk about generic? One size jet chip fits all. Hmm, not going to cut it.

So what if a person decides to do it themselves. They plunk down $500 for an individual HPtuners software license that looks greek to 95% of people out there. Or even if they do know what's going on - they don't have the years and years of experience tuning all GM vehicles like we have.

Suddenly, our prices are starting to sound better and better. When you factor in customer service, the ability to borrow a PCM if need be, the years of experience - you see our prices are a value. If you can't see that, you obviously haven't been shopping around.

My prices are incredibly affordable for what you are getting. This isn't just changing one map, as much as you would like to believe. This is an ENTIRE custom tune tailored to your vehicle. On each tune I make around 50-60 changes impacting engine, transmission, speedometer, etc etc.

I won't even get into what it costs me to make this happen - you don't want to know my margin of profit after I've paid for the vehicle licensing, equipment, advertising, PCM's, research and development, shipping supplies, oh how the list goes on.

Not so fast buddy, let's not compare what you are giving the members to a $500 Custom Tune or how much some custom tuning software costs that you are not giving them either.

So you are telling me that you are going in a making 50-60 changes that you have no idea of what the impact is and don't even have their vehicle there to test it?

Please make a believer out of me and explain these 50-60 changes? Don't worry, I am not asking for the number you input into each cell.

I would love to hear a report of how these tunes work towing a trailer, facing the wind in Summer heat.

Please tell me that you provide the customer a copy of this license and number that you are inlcuding in the cost?

This is too funny..... I am outta here - you guys can pay your hard earned money for this if you want.

Originally Posted by tomp

So you are telling me that you are going in a making 50-60 changes that you have no idea of what the impact is and don't even have their vehicle there to test it?

That's what research and development is for. After you tune about 20 or so Hummer H3's in your research & development time alone (not counting those after), you have a pretty damn good idea of what they need. Not to mention the hundreds of colorado/canyons I have tuned with the same engine. Not to mention the thousands of GM's we have done that taught us about the workings of a GM PCM or chip.

Originally Posted by tomp

Please make a believer out of me and explain these 50-60 changes? Don't worry, I am not asking for the number you input into each cell.

I have already mentioned in this thread the things that I change. If you think I'm going to list the tables I change, sorry, do your own research I am not going to spoon feed this to you.

Originally Posted by tomp

Please tell me that you provide the customer a copy of this license and number that you are inlcuding in the cost?

What good does a license number do to a person who cannot use it?

Originally Posted by tomp

This is too funny..... I am outta here

Excellent, now we can get back on track instead with questions about tuning, instead of you calling people "turds" and talking about things you obviously have no clue about.

[deserth3]

Excellent, now we can get back on track

About time

I wanna here more... Because I ordered mine this morning

[HummBebe]

Originally Posted by keliente

Excellent, now we can get back on track instead with questions about tuning, instead of you calling people "turds" and talking about things you obviously have no clue about.

Sewie.....or someone else who knows me,
can you tell me why this "guy" is getting under my skin???

My bs detector is getting all haywire, am I getting all ruffled up over semantics, or am I on the right track??

Does he answer the questions? or does he do a little dance???

Thanks in advance....bebe

[tomp]

Originally Posted by keliente

That's what research and development is for. After you tune about 20 or so Hummer H3's in your research & development time alone (not counting those after), you have a pretty damn good idea of what they need. Not to mention the hundreds of colorado/canyons I have tuned with the same engine. Not to mention the thousands of GM's we have done that taught us about the workings of a GM PCM or chip.





I have already mentioned in this thread the things that I change. If you think I'm going to list the tables I change, sorry, do your own research I am not going to spoon feed this to you.



What good does a license number do to a person who cannot use it?



Excellent, now we can get back on track instead with questions about tuning, instead of you calling people "turds" and talking about things you obviously have no clue about.

So now where getting somewhere? So after 20 they are all the same? LOL, how about after the first one!!!!

I apologized for the turd comment early on, but the more you respond and avade the details, the more I know my original assumption of you was correct.

I have been around fuel injection and custom mapping a long time, and you even commented earlier and grouped me as a person in the know along with yourself. So don't back track now...

I don't need to know how to tune one as you have done as I am sure you are doing nothing more than copying others' maps and making a change for tire size. The tables are vast and comprehensive and if you can't even tell us which you are changing, I am assuming you don't know as you are copying it from another source plus a tire size change.

You are here to sell something which you should be paying for! I am here to share, learn and help others. I have profit to gain as you...