VA Tech

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by Hmmm3

They have been showing the home on FoxNews. It's a neatly kept, trim townhome, seemingly in a well-kept neighborhood. His parents live there .. while he was at VT he was in a dorm. His sister graduated from Princeton. Knowing many Asian people here, I have no doubt that his parents were very hard working, honorable people. They run a drycleaning business in their town. Academics play a big part in Asian family life, having their children strive in education. (At least, that is what I witness in my area). Perhaps it was more than this guy could take .. or, was pushed so hard in academics that his behavior went unnoticed. The Chicago Tribune has stated that in the killer's note, he expressed hatred towards the 'rich kids'. He obviously had many issues and a lot of hatred. So many ruined lives now.

Reminds me of the Far Side comic where the guy is lying on the couch in the psychiatrist's office and the psychiatrist writes on his notepad simply: "Just plain nuts."

There's no need to look further. He committed mass murder for no reason because he was CRAZY.

[h2co-pilot]

Some stuff:

Links to students Myspace pages/ Blogs etc

Shooters Plays he wrote-

Mr. McBeef wtf

Mr. Brownstone

From the student that published the plays online-

What happened yesterday:

When I first heard about the multiple shootings at Virginia Tech yesterday, my first thought was about my friends, and my second thought was "I bet it was Seung Cho."

Cho was in my playwriting class last fall, and nobody seemed to think much of him at first. He would sit by himself whenever possible, and didn't like talking to anyone. I don't think I've ever actually heard his voice before. He was just so quiet and kept to himself. Looking back, he fit the exact stereotype of what one would typically think of as a "school shooter" ? a loner, obsessed with violence, and serious personal problems. Some of us in class tried to talk to him to be nice and get him out of his shell, but he refused talking to anyone. It was like he didn't want to be friends with anybody. One friend of mine tried to offer him some Halloween candy that she still had, but he slowly shook his head, refusing it. He just came to class every day and submitted his work on time, as I understand it.

A major part of the playwriting class was peer reviews. We would write one-act plays and submit them to an online repository called Blackboard for everyone in the class to read and comment about in class the next day. Typically, the students give their opinions about the plays and suggest ways to make it better, the professor gives his insights, then asks the author to comment about the play in class.

When we read Cho's plays, it was like something out of a nightmare. The plays had really twisted, macabre violence that used weapons I wouldn't have even thought of. Before Cho got to class that day, we students were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter. I was even thinking of scenarios of what I would do in case he did come in with a gun, I was that freaked out about him. When the students gave reviews of his play in class, we were very careful with our words in case he decided to snap. Even the professor didn't pressure him to give closing comments.

After hearing about the mass shootings, I sent one of my friends a Facebook message asking him if he knew anything about Seung Cho and if he could have been involved. He replied: "dude that's EXACTLY what I was thinking! No, I haven't heard anything, but seriously, that was the first thing I thought when I heard he was Asian."

While I "knew" Cho, I always wished there was something I could do for him, but I couldn't think of anything. As far as notifying authorities, there isn't (to my knowledge) any system set up that lets people say "Hey! This guy has some issues! Maybe you should look into this guy!" If there were, I definitely would have tried to get the kid some help. I think that could have had a good chance of averting yesterday's tragedy more than anything.

While I was hesitant at first to release these plays (because I didn't know if there are laws against it), I had to put myself in the shoes of the average person researching this situation. I'd want to know everything I could about the killer to figure out what could drive a person to do something like this and hopefully prevent it in the future. Also, I hope this might help people start caring about others more no matter how weird they might seem, because if this was some kind of cry for attention, then he should have gotten it a long time ago.

As far as the victims go, as I was heading to bed last night, I heard that my good friend Stack (Ryan Clark) was one of the first confirmed dead. I didn't want to believe that I'd never get to talk to him again, and all I could think about was how much I could tell him how much his friendship meant to me. During my junior year, Ryan, another friend and I used to get breakfast on Tuesdays and Thursdays at Shultz Dining Hall, one of the cafeterias on campus, and it was always the highlight of my day. He could talk forever it seemed and always made us laugh. He was a good friend, not just to me, but to a lot of people, and I'll miss him a lot.

[K9sH3]

I watched as VATech held their candle light cermony tonight, Man I wish I wouldn't watch the news.. I work with kids everyday and I just think of what it must be like to be that parent that has to get the call...That is has to be numbing to the soul.
Like most teachers ( which I am not a school teacher) I try to teach the kids right from wrong and how to be a good person.. As we watched on Monday at the Sk8 park, the kids were looking at me for some answers. I saw in thier eyes the true meaning of being kids. And I couldn't explain such an horrific act by another human. I am sure Thursday when I get back I will be able to talk some more with them.

[Scouts Out]

I have just stopped watching the news, it is so depressing. I have experienced the suicide bombers, the terrorist, being shot at, rocketed, mortored, lost friends over seas. This being close to home, close to the age of my kids... that sad.

[Huck BB62]

Hey, I got it! They should outlaw chains!

On a serious note, people really need to start being aware of their surroundings. If that guy was on the forum here, he'd been ratted out fifteen ways to hell and back (cause nobody'd be worried about huwtin' his wittle feewin's) or looking racists.

I'd also like for some common sense gun store owners to ask questions and quit worrying about making a buck so badly. I'm dead serious, I was standing in the gun store checkin' out a new Kimber and the lunkhead salesman was pumpin' info to this gang banger nutjob about why this gun is better than this one etc. When the banger left, I gave the counter guy an earful and asked him if he'd SERIOUSLY SELL A GUN TO THAT guy!

Same thing about this slaughterhouse turd. No idle chit chat about the gun's useage? No questions about training etc.? There's a sign on the wall "We reserve the right to sell a gun to anyone and not to just anyone!" I guarantee you that five minutes of conversation with someone with this mentality would more than trigger an alarm.

First question: Why would anyone in their right mind sell a gun to someone that lives on campus? Ding frickin' ding ding ding.

I'm not a gun control guy. I shoot almost every day. What I'm in favor of is a little common sense.

Oh, by the way, when a terrorist or bad guy starts lining you up for slaughter, fight back. Get together and attack. He's not trained, somebody's getting through. It's a lot better than being popped like a pig in a sausage factory.

The massive news coverage on this is surely training the next psycho to do a better job. The good news is that he DID use a gun. Had he been truly wicked, he'd done a bomb during those huge rallies they have. I know that sounds morbid but look around us. Look at Iraq. I'm glad the guy was a dumbass and used a gun instead of a bomb, or else he'd have killed hundreds.

[deserth3]

Originally Posted by Huck BB62

Hey, I got it! They should outlaw chains!

On a serious note, people really need to start being aware of their surroundings. If that guy was on the forum here, he'd been ratted out fifteen ways to hell and back (cause nobody'd be worried about huwtin' his wittle feewin's) or looking racists.

I'd also like for some common sense gun store owners to ask questions and quit worrying about making a buck so badly. I'm dead serious, I was standing in the gun store checkin' out a new Kimber and the lunkhead salesman was pumpin' info to this gang banger nutjob about why this gun is better than this one etc. When the banger left, I gave the counter guy an earful and asked him if he'd SERIOUSLY SELL A GUN TO THAT guy!

Same thing about this slaughterhouse turd. No idle chit chat about the gun's useage? No questions about training etc.? There's a sign on the wall "We reserve the right to sell a gun to anyone and not to just anyone!" I guarantee you that five minutes of conversation with someone with this mentality would more than trigger an alarm.

First question: Why would anyone in their right mind sell a gun to someone that lives on campus? Ding frickin' ding ding ding.

I'm not a gun control guy. I shoot almost every day. What I'm in favor of is a little common sense.

Oh, by the way, when a terrorist or bad guy starts lining you up for slaughter, fight back. Get together and attack. He's not trained, somebody's getting through. It's a lot better than being popped like a pig in a sausage factory.

The massive news coverage on this is surely training the next psycho to do a better job. The good news is that he DID use a gun. Had he been truly wicked, he'd done a bomb during those huge rallies they have. I know that sounds morbid but look around us. Look at Iraq. I'm glad the guy was a dumbass and used a gun instead of a bomb, or else he'd have killed hundreds.

I agree. If half the people who got killed started throughing books, pens, cell phones, backpacks, chairs or even desk at this kid a lot more of them wouuld have lived. It's difficult to aim a gun if all sort of stuff is flying at you.
We are teaching our kids the wrong thing in school. Instead of sitting there and being passive they should teach them how to defened themselves and ask questions.

[K9sH3]

Originally Posted by deserth3

I agree. If half the people who got killed started throughing books, pens, cell phones, backpacks, chairs or even desk at this kid a lot more of them wouuld have lived. It's difficult to aim a gun if all sort of stuff is flying at you.
We are teaching our kids the wrong thing in school. Instead of sitting there and being passive they should teach them how to defened themselves and ask questions.

[BlueTJCO]

Originally Posted by deserth3

I agree. If half the people who got killed started throughing books, pens, cell phones, backpacks, chairs or even desk at this kid a lot more of them wouuld have lived. It's difficult to aim a gun if all sort of stuff is flying at you.
We are teaching our kids the wrong thing in school. Instead of sitting there and being passive they should teach them how to defened themselves and ask questions.

I thought the same thing..........

except that is real easy to say sitting here entering IP Addresses into computers here in my office. I bet if someone started popping off with two handguns in the office next to me it would be a whole different story...........but I dont know.

I'd love to say I'd be that one "lucky" guy that stopped the shooter.....but I'm guessing under the circumstances that would be much easier said then done.........

[KenP]

Originally Posted by Huck BB62

First question: Why would anyone in their right mind sell a gun to someone that lives on campus? Ding frickin' ding ding ding.

His ID had his parent's address.

Some in the news are making it sound as if you can just walk in and get a gun in Virginia without any checks done. That's not true. You do have a background check done whether the gun is purchased at a store or a gun show.

There's no need for armchair quaterbacking here.

No one could expect ANY gun store owner to research the killer's school writings or history. That's just silly.

The murderer wasn't ever convicted of anything. Nothing would show up on his background check.

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by KenP

No one could expect ANY gun store owner to research the killer's school writings or history. That's just silly.

The murderer wasn't ever convicted of anything. Nothing would show up on his background check.

But he was Asian, just like Ghengis Khan. I'm just saying.

[Huck BB62]

Originally Posted by KenP

His ID had his parent's address.

Some in the news are making it sound as if you can just walk in and get a gun in Virginia without any checks done. That's not true. You do have a background check done whether the gun is purchased at a store or a gun show.

There's no need for armchair quaterbacking here.

No one could expect ANY gun store owner to research the killer's school writings or history. That's just silly.

The murderer wasn't ever convicted of anything. Nothing would show up on his background check.

Sounds like a nice cop-out. All I'm saying is there's a total lack of common sense. There's been a lot of (well, he didn't have a record so...) At THAT PARTICULAR STORE there's been five murders committed with weapons sold from there.

If we intend to maintain our right to bear arms, and that's my point here, we need and must do more than say things like "He didn't have a record". When a quiet sullen guy shows up with no buddies to buy a gun and you just sell it to him, dontcha think that a little talking may be in order? We've got to get smart, or we're going to get legislated out of existance.

It's more than apparent that EVERY SINGLE PERSON that came into contact with this nut had alarms going off in every brain cell that he wasn't right in the head.

About the Monday morning quarter backing remark: Yeah, I get to do that, and you should too because this is most friggin' certainly going to affect you and I. Next time you're at the gun counter and you see a questionable person buying a gun, it's certainly within your rights to talk to him. Why? Because you, as a salesmen of weapons, will be under the microscope and may lose your business and go to jail.

Quick questions like "What kind of shooting do you like to do?" "Where do you practice?" "This hollow point ammo is kind of expensive for plinkin' ain't it?" "Where do you store your guns? Would you like to see our safes?"

I guarantee you that he'd stumble on one or more of those questions enough to cause concern.

[Huck BB62]

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

Sceond question: Why the fcuk not?

When I was in college in the 1980s living on campus, I bought a shotgun, which is about as deadly as you can get. I kept it at my brother's house. I used it to shoot doves, quail, and clay pidgeons.

It was stupid for them not to let me keep it in my dorm room. In some countries, like Switzerland, college-aged male ADULTS are in the militia and required to have their issued semi-auto rifle in their dwellings whether on campus or not. I bet you they don't have a lot of mass shootings on campus in Switzerland (which has the lowest violent crime rate in the Western world).

Well, times have changed. I guess here, where a UL listed gunsafe is required, maybe.

My second response to that Marinehawk (and I completely understand your consternation) is that this batch of kids are put together the same way as in years past. Yeah, we partied, we had fun, but we also had a very deep respect for the right and wrong. Have you looked at collegehumor.com, youtube and myspace? Yeah, I WOULD WANT a gun being around these kids, but they have a real disconnect from the real world if you ask me. (you college agers go ahead and unload, I stand firm) Nobody's saying they're all whacked out, I'm saying the percentages are way different, it's a far cry from "Leave it to Beaver" days.

For instance, a story recently aired where the HR people were searching myspace about their applicants. This guy (hmm, an oriental guy) was all cheesed because he never got interviews. On myspace he had all his partying stuff, and bragging about cheating in college on there. It was his opinion that this info shouldn't be used against him if he wanted to work for you!!??!!?? Another was this chick that was a real party animal, her blog read worse than a copy of the Happy Hooker. It was also her opinion that one thing had nothing to do with another. What do you guys think?

Again, if we don't get some common sense going here, we're going to lose it all.

[MarineHawk]

I guess we just disagree Huck. There were crazy-looking people with mohawks walking around the KU campus when I was there talking to themselves. I don't think that that should have been a reason to tell me that I could not own a shotgun. I will never move to California because of all the crazy laws and regs there.

Generally, when you have a country like ours where there are almost as many firearms as people, regardless of whether it would be good or not, you're never going to be able to make guns unavalable to the whackos. Lott's studies and common sense tell me that the more good, responsible people responsibly keeping loaded firearms around, the more outgunned the bad guys are.

People who don't have guns in D.C. (almost 100% of the population) live in fear because the criminals there commit crimes with impunity unless they run into a cop. People who don't have guns in places where guns are legal are safer (the statistics really do prove it) because the criminals don't know they don't have guns. In D.C., the criminals are pretty sure the single woman in the condo is unnarmed and fair game.

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by Huck BB62

Well, times have changed. I guess here, where a UL listed gunsafe is required, maybe.

My second response to that Marinehawk (and I completely understand your consternation) is that this batch of kids are put together the same way as in years past. Yeah, we partied, we had fun, but we also had a very deep respect for the right and wrong. Have you looked at collegehumor.com, youtube and myspace? Yeah, I WOULD WANT a gun being around these kids, but they have a real disconnect from the real world if you ask me. (you college agers go ahead and unload, I stand firm) Nobody's saying they're all whacked out, I'm saying the percentages are way different, it's a far cry from "Leave it to Beaver" days.

For instance, a story recently aired where the HR people were searching myspace about their applicants. This guy (hmm, an oriental guy) was all cheesed because he never got interviews. On myspace he had all his partying stuff, and bragging about cheating in college on there. It was his opinion that this info shouldn't be used against him if he wanted to work for you!!??!!?? Another was this chick that was a real party animal, her blog read worse than a copy of the Happy Hooker. It was also her opinion that one thing had nothing to do with another. What do you guys think?

Again, if we don't get some common sense going here, we're going to lose it all.

Ann Coulter responded better than me:

Originally Posted by Ann Coulter

Let's make America a ?sad-free zone?! By Ann Coulter

From the attacks of 9/11 to Monday's school shooting, after every mass murder there is an overwhelming urge to "do something" to prevent a similar attack.


But since Adam ate the apple and let evil into the world, deranged individuals have existed.

Most of the time they can't be locked up until it's too late. It's not against the law to be crazy ? in some jurisdictions it actually makes you more viable as a candidate for public office.

It's certainly not against the law to be an unsociable loner. If it were, Ralph Nader would be behind bars right now, where he belongs. Mass murder is often the first serious crime unbalanced individuals are caught committing ? as appears to be in the case of the Virginia Tech shooter.

The best we can do is enact policies that will reduce the death toll when these acts of carnage occur, as they will in a free and open society of 300 million people, most of whom have cable TV.

Only one policy has ever been shown to deter mass murder: concealed-carry laws. In a comprehensive study of all public, multiple-shooting incidents in America between 1977 and 1999, the inestimable economists John Lott and Bill Landes found that concealed-carry laws were the only laws that had any beneficial effect.

And the effect was not insignificant. States that allowed citizens to carry concealed handguns reduced multiple-shooting attacks by 60 percent and reduced the death and injury from these attacks by nearly 80 percent.

Apparently, even crazy people prefer targets that can't shoot back. The reason schools are consistently popular targets for mass murderers is precisely because of all the idiotic "Gun-Free School Zone" laws.

From the people who brought you "zero tolerance," I present the Gun-Free Zone! Yippee! Problem solved! Bam! Bam! Everybody down! Hey, how did that deranged loner get a gun into this Gun-Free Zone?

It isn't the angst of adolescence. Plenty of school shootings have been committed by adults with absolutely no reason to be at the school, such as Laurie Dann, who shot up the Hubbard Woods Elementary School in Winnetka, Ill., in 1988; Patrick Purdy, who opened fire on children at Cleveland Elementary School in Stockton, Calif., in 1989; and Charles Carl Roberts, who murdered five schoolgirls at an Amish school in Lancaster County, Pa., last year.

Oh by the way, the other major "Gun-Free Zone" in America is the post office.

But instantly, on the day of the shooting at Virginia Tech, the media were already promoting gun control and pre-emptively denouncing right-wingers who point out that gun control enables murderers rather than stopping them. Liberals get to lobby for gun control, but we're disallowed from arguing back. That's how good their arguments are. They're that good.

Needless to say, Virginia Tech is a Gun-Free School Zone ? at least until last Monday. The gunman must not have known. Imagine his embarrassment! Perhaps there should be signs.

Virginia Tech even prohibits students with concealed-carry permits from carrying their guns on campus. Last year, the school disciplined a student for carrying a gun on campus, despite his lawful concealed-carry permit. If only someone like that had been in Norris Hall on Monday, this massacre could have been ended a lot sooner.

But last January, the Virginia General Assembly shot down a bill that would have prevented universities like Virginia Tech from giving sanctuary to mass murderers on college campuses in Virginia by disarming students with concealed-carry permits valid in the rest of the state.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker praised the legislature for allowing the school to disarm lawful gun owners on the faculty and student body, thereby surrendering every college campus in the state to deranged mass murderers, saying: "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Others disagreed. Writing last year about another dangerous killer who had been loose on the Virginia Tech campus, graduate student Jonathan McGlumphy wrote: "Is it not obvious that all students, faculty and staff would have been safer if (concealed handgun permit) holders were not banned from carrying their weapons on campus?"
If it wasn't obvious then, it is now.
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/coulter041907.php3