American Axle may close, makes parts for H-3

[Huck BB62]

Here's the dealeo, and my problem with the anti-union bullsheot. They'll move the manufacturing down to Mexico. Do you think the cost of the H3 will drop? Hell no, it'll stay the same. Every since this bullsheot NAFTA thing started up, Americans have been taking the shaft. If we have fat cat Americans on big salaries making axles, so frickin' what. They're spending that money HERE. They're buying something that YOU make or sell. When that money goes to Mexico, then what? (basically Mexican welfare for an inferior product, that's what)

I say screw it, keep the AXL plant open. The price of our vehicles won't drop anyway so keep the money going to our middle class. When they move a factory to Mexico, the product's price doesn't drop, the shareholders and CEOs simply get more skim.

[bparker]

I agree and disagree.
I disagee with the inflated pay rates. Sure we do not see the immediate cost reduction as it takes years to trickle down to the consumer. That rate of pay is ridiculous!! To stay in business you have to use common sense and compete in the market place. 50-60 per hr is NOT getting your dollars worth. Lets keep it realistic here.

I too would like to see them relocate to somewhere in the south where labor is much cheaper. They could cut thier pay rates in half and keep it american.

Now as for Mexico, if they must move, I would rather see them go to Mexico than China. Complain about NAFTA all you want as I hate it too - however - it gives us an alternative choice to China which is as we all know the worst possible choice of all.

Originally Posted by Huck BB62

Here's the dealeo, and my problem with the anti-union bullsheot. They'll move the manufacturing down to Mexico. Do you think the cost of the H3 will drop? Hell no, it'll stay the same. Every since this bullsheot NAFTA thing started up, Americans have been taking the shaft. If we have fat cat Americans on big salaries making axles, so frickin' what. They're spending that money HERE. They're buying something that YOU make or sell. When that money goes to Mexico, then what? (basically Mexican welfare for an inferior product, that's what)

I say screw it, keep the AXL plant open. The price of our vehicles won't drop anyway so keep the money going to our middle class. When they move a factory to Mexico, the product's price doesn't drop, the shareholders and CEOs simply get more skim.

[usetosellhummer]

Unions got too fat and because of the greed and bloat have forced jobs overseas. Thsi has killed our country. A new union reflective of the 21st century is needed.

[Huck BB62]

I'm betting that the axle plant employees would LOVE to be making 50-60$ an hour. I'm calling BS.

In so cal, a frickin' union nuclear plant operator barely makes $40 an hour (of this I know).

Here's what's killin' on the American manufacturing:

Osha rules. They cost a mint. Granted, they save workers, but that ain't free. Move the plant to Mexico or anywhere else, all that cost becomes nil.

Environmental compliance. Same thing. Move the plant, save a mint.

Everyone loves bashing the unions. Who signed the contract? Who made the money, plenty enough money to sign those contracts?

[usetosellhummer]

it's 2007 contracts mean nothing,

[usetosellhummer]

I belonged to a Union, it'a a joke at this time, back in the day they helped, now they just get fat, and will not be able to protect health or retirement benifits in the future.

[hummer_metal]

The 50-60 dollar an hour wage is for what the company must charge as per employee on the clock. Not the hourly wage of the employee themselves.

I have different levels that I charge clients depending which machine is being used.

My 100 ton brake press is 60.00 an hour, tig and or mig is 85.00 an hour because there are added cost in materials and labor. My brake press operator makes 15.00 an hour, where as my welders make 18.50 an hour.

You might think that 50-60 dollars is a lot, however you need to figure adding in other cost. IE; Each employee I hire cost me 5-6 dollars more an hour than what I am paying them, insurance, comp. unemployment benefits and so on.

Now consider the cost to run the machines and the cost of the machines themselves. A good brake press can cost 30k-150k, but in order to keep a business up and running you have to make sure the equipment can pay for itself.

Then there is profit, so you have to factor many things together in order to come up with a hourly charge. 50-60 dollars an hour is not bad at all....

Being a Entrepeneur myself, I understand what it cost to keep a company in the green. In the four years I have run my company I have never made a loss and have never been in the red.

Not to be rude, but I also say how the profits will be spent, and over wages, 100% of it goes back into my company to build my customer base and add new products.

[hummer_metal]

Originally Posted by usetosellhummer

I belonged to a Union, it'a a joke at this time, back in the day they helped, now they just get fat, and will not be able to protect health or retirement benifits in the future.

This is correct....

[K9sH3]

Originally Posted by usetosellhummer

Unions got too fat and because of the greed and bloat have forced jobs overseas. Thsi has killed our country. A new union reflective of the 21st century is needed.

EXACTLYyou are so right. Unions do serve a purpose for some but I agree that the greed that unions have will cost more jobs to to move out of country.

[HummBebe]

Originally Posted by K9sH3

EXACTLYyou are so right. Unions do serve a purpose for some but I agree that the greed that unions have will cost more jobs to to move out of country.

It REALLY depends on the Union. My hubby is CWA. The benefits are awesome, pensions and retirement plans, with a 401K. Health, dental, optical and ADD insurance.

When these incredibly physically hard working people take these jobs, they have to be protected and supported. The physical body only lasts so long getting beat up on a daily basis. Their work lifespan is shorter than that of a desk jockey/pencil pusher.

I don't believe the 50-60 dollar an hour is what they take home, but when you add up the costs of all the above mentioned benefits, it makes sense. They deserve it.

There is a cost and a benefit to every system, the Unions may be greedy, but the men and women who are protected by them deserve the support they offer.

[evldave]

Originally Posted by HummBebe

...the Unions may be greedy, but the men and women who are protected by them deserve the support they offer.

x2!!

Now the real question is how to get rid of the overhead...

[HummBebe]

There is a cost and a benefit to every system

As much as I want to agree with you on that I can't. My Father builds Race cars for a living, my stepfather builds highrises, my husband climbs telephone poles all day.

It's the companies who are greedy. They are going to go through all of that expense to move to Mexico, to EVENTUALLY save a buck a share. In the meantime, those workers left behind will become the taxpayers responsibility, we'll either support them on welfare, AFDC, EDD retraining, unemployment, etc.

NAFTA sucks and so does AAM.

[HummerHippy]

Originally Posted by Huck BB62

Here's the dealeo, and my problem with the anti-union bullsheot. They'll move the manufacturing down to Mexico. Do you think the cost of the H3 will drop? Hell no, it'll stay the same. Every since this bullsheot NAFTA thing started up, Americans have been taking the shaft. If we have fat cat Americans on big salaries making axles, so frickin' what. They're spending that money HERE. They're buying something that YOU make or sell. When that money goes to Mexico, then what? (basically Mexican welfare for an inferior product, that's what)

I say screw it, keep the AXL plant open. The price of our vehicles won't drop anyway so keep the money going to our middle class. When they move a factory to Mexico, the product's price doesn't drop, the shareholders and CEOs simply get more skim.

Interesting point. Could this argument be used to support building Toyotas in the U.S. because the $ stays here, paying the American workers?