H3 T Codenamed GMT745,

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by 3Hummer

how is the spare tire going to hurt the departure angle?

It relatively lowers the rear end where it hits the ground when departing.
Fact: Colorado/Canyon with the off-road package has 1 degree less departure angle than the standard 4x4. Reason, the off-road package has a larger spare, and that extra width detracts from the departure angle.

[BlueHUMMERH2]

Why is the grille covered? This appears to have 2008 lower bumper.

[BlueHUMMERH2]

Why? Are we really supposed to believe this is the SUV version?

Why?

[SHYANNE]

Not everyone who may buy this will want to go to moab and go wheeling.Maybe they wil drive it and use it like a ford sport track that was out.I dont know but it doesnt look like it is going to cater to those who want to go wheeling at moab.Maybe some will just like the look and use it as a suv and a truck to haul some small light weight stuff for thier needs.Does everyone think it has to be built for moab ? I know it is fun there at moab but not everyone who drives a H 3 cares about that do they ?

[RuggedH2]

Originally Posted by SHYANNE

Not everyone who may buy this will want to go to moab and go wheeling.Maybe they wil drive it and use it like a ford sport track that was out.I dont know but it doesnt look like it is going to cater to those who want to go wheeling at moab.Maybe some will just like the look and use it as a suv and a truck to haul some small light weight stuff for thier needs.Does everyone think it has to be built for moab ? I know it is fun there at moab but not everyone who drives a H 3 cares about that do they ?

My original point about departure angle wasn't unique to Moab. Hummers are built with the "angles" in mind. So are the other vehicles that the other manufacturers actually intend to be capable off road. So far every Hummer has class leading "angles". The angles are important off road, climbing is climbing. That's why they consider those angles in the first place. You can't consider all 4X4's "off roaders". If the vehicle overhangs in the front and the rear, and has **** clearance at breakover, then all 4 wheels aint going up that.

I can't tell whats underneath that camouflage anymore than anyone else. With the exception of F5 and Claydog, we are all just speculating.

It does look to me (Bebe's post #4, first picture) like the rear bumper has been moved further back, that might just be subterfuge. If it isn't, or if I'm seeing it wrong, it won't hurt the dpt angle as much as it looks like it will, to me.

GM's engineers know what Hummer is, it's not them I worry about. I think that GM should remain loyal to the original idea.

I like the new JK, but I don't like Jeep Liberty's. They sell a lot of them though.

[BlueHUMMERH2]

This view really makes it looks like the tire will bite into the departure angle. Personally, I don't know where else the spare could be placed. If you put it on the bumper, then you'd have to have a swing bar to get it out of the way (which is a PITA). Or perhaps the whole tailgate would open much like the SUV gate (which could be evidenced in the photo above) but I think that would be unlikely because it wouldn't allow for a bed extender because you'd have the tailgate flopping around. I don't assume from these photos though that the tire will stay there. It could go elsewhere I would imagine, and if it's in a novel spot, they wouldn't want to give that away.

I think it would be cool if the tire went on the tailgate, and the tailgate would pivot down and out, placing the tire into the space in the bumper, which would allow for a tailgate that could be left open and would be extended for support of plywood, drywall, etc.

[CLAYDOG]

Originally Posted by 03H3

My original point about departure angle wasn't unique to Moab. Hummers are built with the "angles" in mind. So are the other vehicles that the other manufacturers actually intend to be capable off road. So far every Hummer has class leading "angles" look at other trucks in the same class, small/midsize pick-up not midsize SUVs. The angles are important off road, climbing is climbing. That's why they consider those angles in the first place. You can't consider all 4X4's "off roaders". If the vehicle overhangs in the front and the rear, and has **** clearance at breakover, then all 4 wheels aint going up that.

I can't tell whats underneath that camouflage anymore than anyone else. With the exception of F5 and Claydog, we are all just speculating.

It does look to me (Bebe's post #4, first picture) like the rear bumper has been moved further back, that might just be subterfuge. If it isn't, or if I'm seeing it wrong, it won't hurt the dpt angle as much as it looks like it will, to me.

GM's engineers know what Hummer is, it's not them I worry about. I think that GM should remain loyal to the original idea.

I like the new JK, but I don't like Jeep Liberty's. They sell a lot of them though.

The spare is not the first point of contact when checking departure angles.

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by 03H3

My original point about departure angle wasn't unique to Moab. Hummers are built with the "angles" in mind. So are the other vehicles that the other manufacturers actually intend to be capable off road. So far every Hummer has class leading "angles". And it could still have class leading angles on the truck, even if the rear departure angle is reduced from the SUV. Class leading means comparing it to the class. A truck is not in the same class as an SUV. Most other P/U's, other than the Dodge powerwagon, do not have decent departure angles. The angles are important off road, climbing is climbing. That's why they consider those angles in the first place. You can't consider all 4X4's "off roaders". If the vehicle overhangs in the front and the rear, and has **** clearance at breakover, then all 4 wheels aint going up that.

I can't tell whats underneath that camouflage anymore than anyone else. With the exception of F5 and Claydog, we are all just speculating.

It does look to me (Bebe's post #4, first picture) like the rear bumper has been moved further back, that might just be subterfuge. If it isn't, or if I'm seeing it wrong, it won't hurt the dpt angle as much as it looks like it will, to me.

GM's engineers know what Hummer is, it's not them I worry about. I think that GM should remain loyal to the original idea.

I like the new JK, but I don't like Jeep Liberty's. They sell a lot of them though.

[RuggedH2]

I understand the classification. Not trying to sound pessimistic either. I do appreciate what you are both trying to say.

My concern here is not even with the new truck in particular. I acknowledged that compromises would have to be made for a "truck" (pickup).

I do like that Hummer has remained loyal to it's original concept. The vehicles moved in the only direction they could, smaller, lighter and less expensive. They also remained capable by design. The H2 SUT is as capable as the H2 SUV.

When I look at Jeep, I appreciate the vehicle that started the heritage, I appreciate how it has evolved. They even had some other vehicles (ie. Cherokee, Wagoneer, etc. etc.) that were also very capable. However, look what they mostly offer now.

Just because people will buy it, doesn't mean they should build it. I know GM is a business, and that business is to sell vehicles that people will pay for. I wanted a Hummer since I drove my first Humvee, the H3 was the first Hummer model I could afford to buy new. I bought an early production and love it.

I just don't want to see Hummer become what Jeep is. Offering everything they think they can sell, with a Jeep badge on it. It cheapens the brand and devalues the credibility of what it means to be a Jeep.