I have a serious question...

[Big Dad]

Russia and China...allies?

[BlueTJCO]

Originally Posted by Big Dad

Russia and China...allies?

Wow, thanks for such wonderful insight

[Big Dad]

Are you serious about Russia and China being allies of the U.S.?

[BlueTJCO]

Originally Posted by Big Dad

Are you serious about Russia and China being allies of the U.S.?

Oh please Mr. ****ing has something to say but wont/cant/doesn't just come out and ****ing say it?

what? what do you have to say that isn't just some one sentence crap line to try to call someone out on something they already admitted to not knowing much about... ....

Do you want to explain to me what your getting at, why your getting at it, and then we can continue to chat and I can continue to learn?

[Big Dad]

Originally Posted by Mooncricket

Oh please Mr. ****ing has something to say but wont/cant/doesn't just come out and ****ing say it?

what? what do you have to say that isn't just some one sentence crap line to try to call someone out on something they already admitted to not knowing much about... ....

Do you want to explain to me what your getting at, why your getting at it, and then we can continue to chat and I can continue to learn?

"Easy killer...I'm trying to drink my morning cup of coffee here...I got to sleep in. I was being serious. It's my day off."

[BlueTJCO]

Originally Posted by Mooncricket

Oh please Mr. ****ing has something to say but wont/cant/doesn't just come out and ****ing say it?

what? what do you have to say that isn't just some one sentence crap line to try to call someone out on something they already admitted to not knowing much about... ....

Do you want to explain to me what your getting at, why your getting at it, and then we can continue to chat and I can continue to learn?

Ok...suppose I got defensive here but didn't really think about it as I'm just a smart ass as it is. Just didn't feel like setting myself up for someone else to slam me as I ALREADY mentioned I am very virgin on the subject...

[wpage]

Russia and China are fair weather friends...

[Big Dad]

Sorry...I was surprised to read the ally hypothesis...I'm only 18 years older...but never recall either country being an ally. I think you pose some valid questions. But I think there is too much rhetoric mixed in the first reply. Everything is dynamic, in my opinion, things were worse and seem to be getting better. 20 years in the military with resources on alert (finger on the button) might have clouded my vision. Those days are over...the state of the military isn't as on the edge as it used to be. There is a war, but the threat has changed. I was just surprised to read that someone thought that (prima facie) communist country's were allies. I wanted to make sure that you weren't hinting at rhetoric yourself. Didn't mean to pi$$ you off.

[Big Dad]

Easy killer...I'm trying to drink my morning cup of coffee here...I got to sleep in. I was being serious. It's my day off.

[Big Dad]

Here comes breakfast...again

[BlueTJCO]

Originally Posted by Big Dad

Easy killer...I'm trying to drink my morning cup of coffee here...I got to sleep in. I was being serious. It's my day off.

I know you were being serious.....so was I. I'm not looking to play games or try to answer someone else's question on a subject matter I obviously know much less about then many here. Just looking for a start, a simple answer and explanation from others who consider themselves "experts" when it comes to this subject.

[BlueTJCO]

Originally Posted by Big Dad

Are you serious about Russia and China being allies of the U.S.?

China, Russia, and the US have United against many things and on many subjects..........


hence why I'm asking if our relations with them have always been this strained, or if this is getting worse and worse by the moment........

[Hucky]

I thought this was going to be one of those serious threads, not a lame fighting thread.

Purses flying

[BlueTJCO]

Originally Posted by Hucky

I thought this was going to be one of those serious threads, not a lame fighting thread.

Purses flying

Hucky.........

It's not a lame fighting thread, hence why I asked Big Dad to lay it out on the line for me to read. I dont want to sit here and read into what others might be thinking, I want to discuss and learn from others that know WTF they are talking about.....


but really........when had Elcova ever had a serious thread that doesn't get HiJacked by some AE or someone else and turned into a large puddle of ****?

[CO Hummer]

Originally Posted by Mooncricket

but really........when had Elcova ever had a serious thread that doesn't get HiJacked by some AE or someone else and turned into a large puddle of ****?

I agree. I'm so sick of unrelated subject matter entering into a serious discussion.

[GLBLWARMR]

There is quite a bit to look at with the question you posed. The first thing is since the end of the Cold War Russia has been trying to get back in the International Community. That country is totally screwed right now by this I am talking about economics, and military strength. The country is still extremely poor and they are trying to pull some of the same sh*t our good friend (not really) Kim Jong Ill (North Korea) has been pulling for years. KJI likes to rattle his saber to try and get concessions for the World Stage. Everytime he comes out and threatens the world with doing something stupid, we have discussions with him and provide some sort of help to that country. Well North Korea is totally screwed right now with all the weather issues and KJI knows that and is begging for help from the international community. Well Russia sees what we (International Community) gives to North Korea and so they are trying to do the same thing. Our relations with Russia really hasn't changed all that much since the end of the Cold War. We still talk and discuss things but Russia will back who they think they can get the most from and right now that is China.

Now China is another story. The issues with China right now is the struggle for Global influence. China and the United States are in a struggle for influence throughout the Globe. Both countries are trying to install their beliefs and influences throughout the world in order to win over valuable countries. By influencing these countries each country we can use them to push bordering countries to follow or align with what that country is doing.

There are many more issues that this but at the Macro level this is just a start.

[DRTYFN]

Originally Posted by Mooncricket

China, Russia, and the US have United against many things and on many subjects..........


hence why I'm asking if our relations with them have always been this strained, or if this is getting worse and worse by the moment........

Like what? Aliens in movies? Russia & China are only semi cordial because we're so much stronger economically & militarily than both of them combined. Also, part of what you're seeing now is the distorted perception the liberal media is trying to present to the sheeple.

You asked for opinions. Don't get into pissing matches with the people that respond even though you're not getting the responses you're obviously looking for. Instead of asking for opinions why don't you just make the statement you want to?

[BlueTJCO]

Originally Posted by DRTYFN

You asked for opinions. Don't get into pissing matches with the people that respond even though you're not getting the responses you're obviously looking for. Instead of asking for opinions why don't you just make the statement you want to?

WTF are you talking about...... I have no statement to make. Just want to understand. I dont see where anyone is getting pissed off this morning? Are my responses different to any response I've ever had on this board?

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by Mooncricket

Are my responses different to any response I've ever had on this board?

No. That the problem.

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by Mooncricket

China, Russia, and the US have United against many things and on many subjects..........


hence why I'm asking if our relations with them have always been this strained, or if this is getting worse and worse by the moment........

Russia and the U.S. were enemies almost constantly between 1917 and 1990. There was a brief "alliance" from 1941 to 1945 to defeat Hitler, but remember:
* Stalin started off the war as Hitler's ally. They enteried into the Molotoz/Ribontrop pact and divided up eastern Europe, whereby the Nazi's too western and central Poland and the Russians gobbled up eastern Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Besarabia. And then, stalin invaded neutral Finland. During the 30s and 40s, he killed 15-20M of his own people out of insane paranoia and to collectivize the farms (even Lenin did not try the later, knowing that they'd have to kill millions to accomplish it). Stalin, for example, destroyed the food supplies in the Ukraine in the mid 30s, and just let millins of men, women, and children there starve to death to subdue them. For that reason, the Nazis were greeted as liberators by the Ukrainians (and many Russians) in 1941 until they proved to be just a murderous.
* Russia only became our ally, when Hitler invaded Russia.
* During the war, we bankrolled Stalin's war effort with tens of thousands of tanks, airplanes, trucks, etc...
* During the war, Stalin never really acted as our ally.
* During the war, Stalin murdered the Polish government in exile after inviting them to Moscow to discuss how he would turn over power to them after the war.
* At the end of the war, Stalin occupied and imposed his dictatorship over all of eastern europe and much of central Europe.
* After the war, Stalin blockaded W. Berlin to drive us out of there.
* For the next 45 years, the USSR and the U.S. were enemies in every political sense of the word. Both did everything, short of a mutually-annihilating WWIII, to cause the collapse of the other.
* We essentially won this struggle in 1990 when the USSR collapsed (in large part because the arms race with the U.S. bankrupted their feeble Communist economy).
* For a brief period (about ten years) there was a pretense that we had the same goals and were on the same team. That fiction, was unraveled when the Russians violently resisted our attempts to put a stop to Hussein, which was bribing Putin (and Chrirac and others) with billions of petro-dollars from the oil-for-food scheme to oppose us.

There's no doubting however, that our diplomitic ties are currently strengthening with most trully democratic nations. That's about the best we can do. china and Russia, as always, want to dominate the globe. We don't want them to do so. thus, we're really not allies.

France, Germany, Britain, Poland, Australia, etc..., do not want to dominate the globe, thus we have increasingly friendly alliances with them. Sarkozy is much more friendly than Chirac; Merkel much more than Schroeder; Brown is less though than Blair, but Britain is still very friendly; most of eastern europe really love us-we're more popular there than anywhare else--in part because they are trully tasting and embracing democracy for the first time--they love it and love us for helping them get it. Seriously, the trend is up.

Also, it can get only better. I doubt many will want to read this article, but it explains what's really going on right now: http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=9804

If you want to know what really going on, what the facts are, and not just the general pessimistic conclusions by the media, read that article. The reason the main Dem candidates are backing off their demands/promises to immediately get out of Iraq is they’re starting to understand who the fundamentals have shifted in the last few months. Sometimes victories are costly and take time. We’re almost there. We really have no dedicated enemies in Iraq any more since the Sunni’s have turned against Al Qaeda other than the foreigners and bands of criminals. We no longer are fighting the Iraqi political insurgents who were previously by far the main reason form the civil and military strife going on over these.