New H2 Winch Questions

[MarineHawk]

Looking at a new H2 with the adventure package with the intent to push it to design limit on the national forest trials.
I’m getting conflicting advice on winches. One dealer says this (http://www.warn.com/truck/mounting-s...r_kit_h2.shtml) is the best way to go because (1) it looks great, and (2) it affects the approach angle less than the add-on ones that protrude further. I tend to agree, but another dealer said that the best way to go was with the portable tow-hitch versions because, he says, the don’t really hurt your approach angle (seems counter-intuitive to me), and (2) you can winch forward or backward. Another factor seemingly in favor of the first option is that the tow hitches are, I believe, rated to 5,000 lbs. Isn’t putting a 9,500 lb winch on a 5,000 lb tow hitch a bad idea? (see http://www.4x4now.com/bb0197.htm).

[MarineHawk]

Looking at a new H2 with the adventure package with the intent to push it to design limit on the national forest trials.
I’m getting conflicting advice on winches. One dealer says this (http://www.warn.com/truck/mounting-s...r_kit_h2.shtml) is the best way to go because (1) it looks great, and (2) it affects the approach angle less than the add-on ones that protrude further. I tend to agree, but another dealer said that the best way to go was with the portable tow-hitch versions because, he says, the don’t really hurt your approach angle (seems counter-intuitive to me), and (2) you can winch forward or backward. Another factor seemingly in favor of the first option is that the tow hitches are, I believe, rated to 5,000 lbs. Isn’t putting a 9,500 lb winch on a 5,000 lb tow hitch a bad idea? (see http://www.4x4now.com/bb0197.htm).

[dochummer]

I would go with the drty winch. Much better looking than the warn bumper and you can use a 12000lb winch. If you really want the option of winching from behind, just carry a warn winch in the cradle.

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MarineHawk:
Looking at a new H2 with the adventure package with the intent to push it to design limit on the national forest trials.
I’m getting conflicting advice on winches. One dealer says this (http://www.warn.com/truck/mounting-s...r_kit_h2.shtml) is the best way to go because (1) it looks great, and (2) it affects the approach angle less than the add-on ones that protrude further. I tend to agree, but another dealer said that the best way to go was with the portable tow-hitch versions because, he says, the don’t really hurt your approach angle (seems counter-intuitive to me), and (2) you can winch forward or backward. Another factor seemingly in favor of the first option is that the tow hitches are, I believe, rated to 5,000 lbs. Isn’t putting a 9,500 lb winch on a 5,000 lb tow hitch a bad idea? (see http://www.4x4now.com/bb0197.htm). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought you were wrestling with this idea:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MarineHawk:
I’m debating between waiting about 2 years before I can buy afford to buy a 2-yr-old H1 with the Duramax/Allison compbo and keeping my GMC Sierra until then or being impatient and buying an H3 in the next year. I have some questions for anyone who cares to offer advice. My main concern is off-road capability, but I must admit, when I lived in Colorado, I scoffed at vehicles that couldn’t keep at least 50 mph going up the 6% grades on the mountain highways while I barreled along at 70 mph with my 6.0L. I don’t mind being a little slower, but I don’t want to be pathetic. And I don’t want to get bogged down on hills off road.

I’ve read a lot of debates here about whether the 220 HP engine is deficient or not. Does anyone have enough expertise/experience to tell me whether the 25 additional HP of the alleged 3.7L would have made the difference in getting to the top here?: http://trucktrend.com/roadtests/suv/...ge/index6.html (p. 7 of 13).
Would the automatic trans have made it easier? Did the driver not know how to shift? Would better tires have helped? Surely more power would have helped one way or the other, right?

I noticed that no dealership in my area has H3s with manual trans. Does anyone have/like one in their H3? Any drawbacks? (heard about small pedal spaces). Does the unbelievable 69:1 crawls ratio of the manual trans work much better than the still-excellent 56:1 ratio for the auto trans?
Thanks in advance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/2706067735/m/5...121050451#5121050451

And it's TRAILS.

[PARAGON]

Go study some more and then come back with legitimate questions. Using your "thoughts", the H2 is only capable of pulling a 5Klb trailer or less. Check the specs.

Secondly, and most importantly, the physics of winching and the physics of pulling a trailer are completely different and can't be compared. It's short-sighted to even draw a comparison.

[MarineHawk]

Dochummer:
I appreciate the advice. I looked but couldn’t find any photos. Do you know where I can find some?

DRTYFN:
I decided to split the difference and go for an H2 after to educating myself on how good the they really are off-road despite my concerns about the higher crawl ratio than the H3, etc. Thanks for the spelling tip. Maybe you can point out that PARAGON left his comma outside his quotation mark as well. Grammar imperfection should not be tolerated – especially in a 4x4 forum.

PARAGON
I did “Check the specs,’ and it says “If you’ll be pulling a trailer that, when loaded, will weigh more than 5,000 lbs, be sure to use a properly mounted, weight-distributing hitch and sway control of proper size.” See FN 4. I.e., don’t use the stock trailer hitch for hauling more than 5,000 lbs. It also says “trailer tongue weight should be 10-15% of total loaded trailer weight, up to 700 lbs.” I.e., don’t put more than 700 lbs of vertical stress on the hitch. Probably not good for winching. Please feel free to “go study some more and then come back with legitimate” criticisms if that’s what you like to do with your time.

[ROX]

You could always get a portable winch and strap it down in the back of your rig so it doesn't fly around. Then you're approach angle doesn't change, and you can use it when you need it.

[ROX]

Drty winch bumper on slope. 12000 lb winch hidden inside with really pretty blue rope.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MarineHawk:
PARAGON
I did “Check the specs,’ and it says “If you’ll be pulling a trailer that, when loaded, will weigh more than 5,000 lbs, be sure to use a properly mounted, weight-distributing hitch and sway control of proper size.” See FN 4. I.e., don’t use the stock trailer hitch for hauling more than 5,000 lbs. It also says “trailer tongue weight should be 10-15% of total loaded trailer weight, up to 700 lbs.” I.e., don’t put more than 700 lbs of vertical stress on the hitch. Probably not good for winching. Please feel free to “go study some more and then come back with legitimate” criticisms if that’s what you like to do with your time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks, makes it much more fun to point out how stupid you are.

H2's manufacturer suggested Max Trailer weight is 6,700 lbs. Has nothing to do with using a weight distributing hitch or not. A weight distribiting hitch has no bearing on the horizontal forces applied to the receiver hitch. A 6,700 pound trailer pushing you from the back or being jerked by the truck, is 6,700 pounds of rolling mass no matter how it is connected.

Vertical load rates on the receiver is of little concern for winching applications, but you can easily lift the front or rear of the 7,000 lb H2 off the ground using the winch in the cradle without damaging anything. Point is, einstein, that tonque weight ratings and trailer weight ratings have less to do with capability of the receiver system itself than it does with the overall vehicle's capability.

[ROX]

Oops! How'd that get in there? Sorry, no winch on that one.

[KenP]

I heart the DRTY bumper.

[KenP]

Hey, looking at that pic I now realize what the plastic plugs are for. Duh... Glad I saved them...

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
I heart the DRTY bumper. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I heart the Warn bumper so much, I have 2 of them.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
Hey, looking at that pic I now realize what the plastic plugs are for. Duh... Glad I saved them... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That thing really needs to get some scratchy scratchy under it.

[tomp]

Personally, I like the drty winch setup the best out of all the options I have seen.

Both setups have some advantages that have been beatin' to death and can be found using the "find" option.

I have used the portable winches since the 90's on several rigs and in lots of different scenerios and have yet to bend anything. I have done some extreme winching at some crazy angles and never had a problem even when using a pulley at max load.

Oh, and don't forget your alignment

[MarineHawk]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MarineHawk:
PARAGON
I did “Check the specs,’ and it says “If you’ll be pulling a trailer that, when loaded, will weigh more than 5,000 lbs, be sure to use a properly mounted, weight-distributing hitch and sway control of proper size.” See FN 4. I.e., don’t use the stock trailer hitch for hauling more than 5,000 lbs. It also says “trailer tongue weight should be 10-15% of total loaded trailer weight, up to 700 lbs.” I.e., don’t put more than 700 lbs of vertical stress on the hitch. Probably not good for winching. Please feel free to “go study some more and then come back with legitimate” criticisms if that’s what you like to do with your time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks, makes it much more fun to point out how stupid you are.

H2's manufacturer suggested Max Trailer weight is 6,700 lbs. Has nothing to do with using a weight distributing hitch or not. A weight distribiting hitch has no bearing on the horizontal forces applied to the receiver hitch. A 6,700 pound trailer pushing you from the back or being jerked by the truck, is 6,700 pounds of rolling mass no matter how it is connected.

Vertical load rates on the receiver is of little concern for winching applications, but you can easily lift the front or rear of the 7,000 lb H2 off the ground using the winch in the cradle without damaging anything. Point is, einstein, that tonque weight ratings and trailer weight ratings have less to do with capability of the receiver system itself than it does with the overall vehicle's capability. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

PARAGON:
I'll just dodge you're witty insults and just say: H2 has a Class III hitch. Class III hitches are designed to have no more than 5,000 lbs of force exerted on them, whether by yanking them around by a winch or by towing a trailer of that weight. Forget the tongue weight rating for a second, FN4 in the specs says don't pull more than 5,000 lbs with your Class III hitch - that's a horizontal force, and that's for the stock hitch.
And I may be wrong for having this concern, but I just merely asked the question. Please just take your psychosis meds. There's no reason to get angry when someone asks a question about winches, unless you're psychotic.

[KenP]

I wonder how all those winches worked so well in Moab while attached to the receiver?

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MarineHawk:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MarineHawk:
PARAGON
I did “Check the specs,’ and it says “If you’ll be pulling a trailer that, when loaded, will weigh more than 5,000 lbs, be sure to use a properly mounted, weight-distributing hitch and sway control of proper size.” See FN 4. I.e., don’t use the stock trailer hitch for hauling more than 5,000 lbs. It also says “trailer tongue weight should be 10-15% of total loaded trailer weight, up to 700 lbs.” I.e., don’t put more than 700 lbs of vertical stress on the hitch. Probably not good for winching. Please feel free to “go study some more and then come back with legitimate” criticisms if that’s what you like to do with your time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks, makes it much more fun to point out how stupid you are.

H2's manufacturer suggested Max Trailer weight is 6,700 lbs. Has nothing to do with using a weight distributing hitch or not. A weight distribiting hitch has no bearing on the horizontal forces applied to the receiver hitch. A 6,700 pound trailer pushing you from the back or being jerked by the truck, is 6,700 pounds of rolling mass no matter how it is connected.

Vertical load rates on the receiver is of little concern for winching applications, but you can easily lift the front or rear of the 7,000 lb H2 off the ground using the winch in the cradle without damaging anything. Point is, einstein, that tonque weight ratings and trailer weight ratings have less to do with capability of the receiver system itself than it does with the overall vehicle's capability. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

PARAGON:
I'll just dodge you're witty insults and just say: H2 has a Class III hitch. Class III hitches are designed to have no more than 5,000 lbs of force exerted on them, whether by yanking them around by a winch or by towing a trailer of that weight. Forget the tongue weight rating for a second, FN4 in the specs says don't pull more than 5,000 lbs with your Class III hitch - that's a horizontal force, and that's for the stock hitch.
And I may be wrong for having this concern, but I just merely asked the question. Please just take your psychosis meds. There's no reason to get angry when someone asks a question about winches, unless you're psychotic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I won't dodge your unwitty, stupid insults.... Oh, look, you didn't either.

And OH NO!!!!! Engineers must be much dumber than you (of course you can't comprehend your own statements) for saying that the H2 can tow a 6,700lb trailer if it only has a receiver rated for 5,000 lbs.

Check again. The H2 DOES NOT have a Class III Hitch RECEIVER (the part that's on the truck). The H2's receivers are designed into the front and rear frame and are not add-ons. It will accept at standard Class III HITCH (the part that slides INTO the receiver). Funny, it also will accept a Class IV hitch AND is what should be used if you pull max trailer weight.

Get it now or are you still stumpid.

[MarineHawk]

Sounds like I'm probably wrong about the receiver mounted winches (though I was really just asking a question). If nothing else, I learned that you're a really nice guy PARAGON.

[MarineHawk]

KenP, dochummer, and/or H2 Rocks:
Where do you get these DRTY bumpers, and what winch can/would you put on one?